X4v13r wrote:

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This is one of those topics that just like soccer, religion or politics, one can discuss for days and go in circles, but never really agree on,.... which is cool
So why beat a dead horse? BUT... since you asked, LOL

 

 Dude, again, I don’t really disagree with you.... that foundations have done a lot of good things, and that they should never go away, etc
But how informed does one have to be, to figure out, that a foundation that has been raising money since the 20’s 0r 30’s (don’t know exactly)… and collecting billions of dollars for 70 or 80 years (and that’s just the CANADIAN Cancer Society) and barely making a dent on cancer, just does NOT sound like a whole lot of achievements?
I’m saying that given the resources and money they have access to, they should’ve been able to do way WAY more than a few improvements here or there

Research is good.. finding even the slightest benefit from research is also good… being able to save lives BECAUSE of research, is excellent!….
But ONLY finding the slightest benefit, and ONLY being able to save a few lives at a cost of billions of dollars and tens of years invested, is not good… I mean, it’s not good enough


The "small vs big foundations" makes sense, but your example is really specific
I can’t think of many other foundations that operate like that
Off the top of my head I’d say I might be more inclined to give to, for example, to The Ronald McDonald fund. That will benefit a kid right away, as opposed to giving a few hundred bucks to the Cancer society, who has proven to not do a whole lot with the huge amounts of money they picked up (at least not in relation too the amount of money they raised) in my opinion
But I’m sure people like your friend have benefitted from all these researches and good for them!…
But my argument is that they should be disease free by now, NOT just benefitted a litlle bit from it…. I mean do you know how many, as you mention, molecules you can breakdown with a quadrazillion million dollars, that all these foundations raise, if it all, or most, went to research?! With all that money you’d think the’d researched every friggin molecule around, already! (molecules is just an example BTW)
Bottom line, and this is very cynical and strictly in my opinion, but I think that foundations like these, that are managed more like a corporation than a true foundation, just give us enough results to keep us happy about giving... and they play the sad music in the background and exploit the sick, for a cause that took them 70 or 80 years and hundreds of millions of dollars to come up with, basically, nothing

Do you know how much the head of the cancer society makes? (I posted something about it last year around this time, and I forget now) it was close to a million bucks
And I’m sure you’ll give me the argument that they have to hire the best person for the job, etc…. but HOW ironic is it for an institution that it’s sole purpose of it’s board "members" is to RAISE money and put as much money into research and awareness, to have a dude make a million bucks to manage it?!!
Do you mean to tell me that this guy actually DOES give a damn about finding a cure for cancer… or is he worried more about doing what he was hired to do.... which is: the foundation making as much money as possible, and in the mean time, not lose his million dollar job?

On your lab comment. The reason I think it’s not in some of these labs interest’s to find a cure, is, and I don’t know the numbers but... I’m sure that TREATING someone for cancer for months or years would bring a lot more money in for laboratories, than CURING someone of cancer
If these foundations are REEALLY out to rid the world of cancer, why not globalize it? Why not create a the World Cancer Society (there might even be one, but I doubt they all really work as a unit) so that they can have billions instead of millions a year for research, and help each other? and give the surplus back to the families that need it?
Why not build a big ass lab and research the hell out of every thing and every single molecule and drug in sight? is it not that simple to have a better chance at it?

 Re. the volunteers, they DO give a damn about finding a cure, of course!… 'cause those are affected, but I doubt they have any say in where the foundations money is spent... and they do it out of love for their families and friends. It takes great dedication and I commend them in all their efforts. Kudos, if you do that

I was searching for the "world cancer society" but came across this instead
It's long, but if you're interested, it's a pretty interesting read

 

-- Edited by Dogo at 20:18, 2006-12-08

Dogo wrote:

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I actually don’t disagree with you
And if you re-read my post…. nor did I say, nor do I think, that research money isn’t money well spent.
What I implied was, that the money, probably, isn’t well spent by THESE type of giant "corporation-like charities"
And contrary to what you believe, I think that if people were to donate to foundations other than these HUGE ones, and actually to foundations that would be a little more in touch, and with actual members or families affected by cancer (or whatever) that actually and TRULY gave a damn, and would like a shot at developing a cure. (or even local hospitals, seems a better investment)… Not only would we not be living in caves, but maybe we might’ve found a cure for many diseases that should’ve been eradicated by now

Bro u have a good point for some1 that’s not well informed, I would of said the same thing before but after volunteering to some of these events, I have a different view of things.

Here is where u have it wrong, Lets take Cancer (Huge) and the Breast Cancer (small) foundations (only for example), even tho the Breast Cancer would be the “small” foundation they do work in partner with the Cancer “Huge” foundation.
Just think about it y would a “small” foundation try to compete with a “huge” foundation, when they are looking for the same cure but one might just specialize in part of it.

U r just contradicting urself, if people started giving to this “small” foundation like you say, with time they would just become a “huge” foundation, is the circle of life, I know.

By being part of some of these events has also showed me that is not like u say, that this foundations don’t give a damn, most of the people that help and volunteer their time to make things happen are people that have been helpped and seen what a differences these foundations have made in their lives and of others. These foundations must be doing something right in order for these people to do this, don’t u think?




On a good year the cancer society will raise 150 to nearly 200 million dollars. That is nearly $200.000.000.000!!!
That is a hell of a lot of zeros, dude (PER YEAR!)… to develop, basically, nothing more than what…. Chemotherapy? since when?.. the sixties, seventies?!! (and I bet it was probably a private lab that developed it)
I’m sure much of their money went to develop many good things to make these people’s lives a better one… but how MUCH better? and why JUST better?.. at the tune of BILLIONS of dollars, and all they could develop is "better living" for many that have a good chance of dying anyway?! After nearly a century of research?! What the hell? These people should’ve been CURED ages ago! And how much better did it get, considering all the time and money that went into it?
Better procedures, Transplants, prevention, awareness, I'm sure saved many lives... maybe some drugs to LIVE with IT a little better?… (which many probably had nothing to do with the cancer society, but all to do with dedicated hospitals and wealthy private labs) I can’t think of anything else of relevance.
Granted, all of the above are all great things, but is that IT?!! That’s all they can account for, after decades and billions of dollars spent on research?!!.. And people still dying of this, and similar diseases?!

That is gr8 that they where able to raise that much money but have u ever stop to think how they did it and how much time/work it must of gone into it? Is not like people just come and gave them the money “porque son bonitos?” and is just not the little guys like u and I that give the money to make this happen……is big companies, people with money that make this happen and in order for this people to give them, they need to bring this people to them by putting events, fundraisers, and things a like together, and what do all of this equals to? a lot of money/time/work to be put in, in order to make things happen and get some $$$ back.

Disease research is not like math were there is only on right answer and in most cases u can only get it one way, research is a lot of hit an miss till u get it just right and there is many ways to get there but in order to get there is a lot of time and people to do the research, how many scientist do u know? Exactly, not many that’s for sure, and now think of this guys trying to break a molecule to its smalls properties I’m sure is not an easy thing and something that can be done over night, is going to take time and like always time is money.

I would like u to tell people like Michael J. Fox, Magic Johnson, and my buddy that have benefit from this researchs, that is not good enough, that these foundations are not doing a good job because they haven’t found a cure yet.



I truly believe there are a lot of interests that put a stop to the development of certain cures. One of the main ones being these huge corporate-like foundations
Because the day they in fact DID find a cure for cancer, for example, that would likely be the end of the cancer society. There’s nothing in it for them. Why would people donate at that point... vs 150 to 200 million a year, now?
I have no problem with money being spent on research, but I don’t trust foundations that probably have more administrators than actual researchers
By now we should’ve loooooong had a cure for cancer, AIDS and many more diseases, with all that money we threw into research.

Do u know how much money pharmaceutical companies make in a year? Trust me there is a lot more money to be made from a cure than from doing research and is not like it can be hidden, there is so many people working for this companies with family members or them selves that would benefit from the cure, so i would find it very hard that they could hide it.

My point is: I don’t think research money is money that shouldn’t be spent… BUT it should be spent well, NOT like these HUGE corporate foundations that all I can see they’ve spent their millions or billions on, is their PR, some advances that don't reflect the amount of time and money that they've put into it, lobbying the tobacco companies, the government. Putting a picture of a blackened lung on my cigarette pack and a "nutritional facts" tag, on the side of my Frosted Flakes box

PR is a good thing, what do u think keeps people coming back and giving them money to keep doing what they are doing. Like I said before, research is what makes this world go round being for disease, technology, or environmental at the end we all benefit from it with research is all about baby steps with small or huge foundations.

-- Edited by Dogo at 04:55, 2006-12-08

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X@vier

Marky Mark wrote:

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DulceGalletita wrote:

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@ Cocotaso : it's the World Wildlife Federation did I get it right??

If so I want a cookie!

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'Fund'

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it's fund

Ok, I mean World Wildlife Fund

Wow! Great points of view

Very interesting!

And I agree with both ...

I feel that what's important is the act from the person donating, unfortunately there are scams and things going on but one's action is to give for a good cause now what the person does with the money received is in there conscience (did I spell that right? ) ... al fin de todo pues todo lo que se hace se paga con el tiempo ...

@ Cocotaso : it's the World Wildlife Federation did I get it right??

If so I want a cookie!

-- Edited by DulceGalletita at 10:35, 2006-12-08

The sad truth is that there is too much corruption within these organizations.  Big or small.  People that mean well by contributing begin to lose their faith in the organizations and stop giving all together.  I suggest researching the organizations you are donating to.  They have a legal obligation to their donors to provide financial information as to where the money is going.  If 75% is going to administration alone and only 25% going to the cause, then there is a serious problem.  You need to ensure that the money you are providing is actually going for the cause and not the big deep pockets of the organizations' Director or CEOs.

Anyhooo... great arguments X and Dogo.  Very well put!

X4v13r wrote:

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I'm sorry but I have to disagree will of u that say giving to charity for research doesn't help...

@Dogo

bro, how do u want them to develop new technology if they don't do the research first to find what is it that they need to develop?

you guys need to look up the word research to find y is it that they need all that money for, is not like they are going to look somewhere and find the anwer right away......it takes a lot of time and people to come up with an answer to something.

if everyone was to think the way that u guys do we still be living in a cave.

X@vier



-- Edited by X4v13r at 10:26, 2006-12-07

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I actually don’t disagree with you
And if you re-read my post…. nor did I say, nor do I think, that research money isn’t money well spent.
What I implied was, that the money, probably, isn’t well spent by THESE type of giant "corporation-like charities"
And contrary to what you believe, I think that if people were to donate to foundations other than these HUGE ones, and actually to foundations that would be a little more in touch, and with actual members or families affected by cancer (or whatever) that actually and TRULY gave a damn, and would like a shot at developing a cure. (or even local hospitals, seems a better investment)… Not only would we not be living in caves, but maybe we might’ve found a cure for many diseases that should’ve been eradicated by now

On a good year the cancer society will raise 150 to nearly 200 million dollars. That is nearly $200.000.000.000!!!
That is a hell of a lot of zeros, dude (PER YEAR!)… to develop, basically, nothing more than what…. Chemotherapy? since when?.. the sixties, seventies?!! (and I bet it was probably a private lab that developed it)
I’m sure much of their money went to develop many good things to make these people’s lives a better one… but how MUCH better? and why JUST better?.. at the tune of BILLIONS of dollars, and all they could develop is "better living" for many that have a good chance of dying anyway?! After nearly a century of research?! What the hell? These people should’ve been CURED ages ago! And how much better did it get, considering all the time and money that went into it?
Better procedures, Transplants, prevention, awareness, I'm sure saved many lives... maybe some drugs to LIVE with IT a little better?… (which many probably had nothing to do with the cancer society, but all to do with dedicated hospitals and wealthy private labs) I can’t think of anything else of relevance.
Granted, all of the above are all great things, but is that IT?!! That’s all they can account for, after decades and billions of dollars spent on research?!!.. And people still dying of this, and similar diseases?!

I truly believe there are a lot of interests that put a stop to the development of certain cures. One of the main ones being these huge corporate-like foundations
Because the day they in fact DID find a cure for cancer, for example, that would likely be the end of the cancer society. There’s nothing in it for them. Why would people donate at that point... vs 150 to 200 million a year, now?
I have no problem with money being spent on research, but I don’t trust foundations that probably have more administrators than actual researchers
By now we should’ve loooooong had a cure for cancer, AIDS and many more diseases, with all that money we threw into research.

My point is: I don’t think research money is money that shouldn’t be spent… BUT it should be spent well, NOT like these HUGE corporate foundations that all I can see they’ve spent their millions or billions on, is their PR, some advances that don't reflect the amount of time and money that they've put into it, lobbying the tobacco companies, the government. Putting a picture of a blackened lung on my cigarette pack and a "nutritional facts" tag, on the side of my Frosted Flakes box

 

-- Edited by Dogo at 04:55, 2006-12-08

I'm sorry but I have to disagree will of u that say giving to charity for research doesn't help...

@Dogo

bro, how do u want them to develop new technology if they don't do the research first to find what is it that they need to develop?

you guys need to look up the word research to find y is it that they need all that money for, is not like they are going to look somewhere and find the anwer right away......it takes a lot of time and people to come up with an answer to something.

if everyone was to think the way that u guys do we still be living in a cave.

X@vier



-- Edited by X4v13r at 10:26, 2006-12-07

I don't donate to charities for a start becuase SOOOOOO little of  goes to the persons that money was collected for, not more than 15 to 20%.

Then Research, pffffft, well, we've done that many years back home to find out that it also can be a huge scam. I don't think this will be happening today anmore but hey, you never know. But mostly, those labs are so healthy, why do they need our money and then, why aren't those treatment free or at least avl @ a reasonable price so the pple that wpuld need it could have access to it. Because as you certainly know, most of those new inovating treatment are so expensive and many time not covered by public health or your private isurance that if you don't have the money, please step aside and go die in silence in a corner please.

 

Bottom end, food bank, give some of your own time to go and help in sheltters and hospitals, those are the only charity that I would help.

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Note to self: Dogo is STILL an ass.


j/k, actually I agree with Dogo on this one. Donations are better off to those that can benefit immediately like food banks, womens' shelters, Good Will and the like. But to eaches own.

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Marky mark,
About your note to self: does he look like one too?

I don't really agree to donating to foundations, because i'm never 100% sure the people who need it most get it. So i rather give the needy what they need right there and then. Right in their hands.


-- Edited by Guadalupana at 08:40, 2006-12-07

-- Edited by Guadalupana at 08:40, 2006-12-07

Now that some of you mention some of the bigger charities...
(And this might come across as very cynic, but whatever)

I’m often reluctant to give to these HUGE corporation-like charities
SPECIALLY the ones that claim to raise funds to find a cure for a certain disease

I mean, how much money do you have to throw at "researching" a certain disease before you figure out... "you know what? Maybe we simply can’t cure it" or "maybe we should hold off till we actually have the technology to research it properly... in the mean time lets throw some of these millions of dollars back to the families that are affected"

For how long do you have to "research" to figure out that chocolate chip cookies (or whatever) does NOT cure cancer... nor AIDS... nor whatever
How the hell could you throw BILLIONS of dollars in trying to find, and researching for a cure for a disease, and come up with nothing... NOOOOOTHIIIIIING.. for yeeeeeeears!!
What do these guys research?! Unless there’s a promising drug or treatment to be researched, what do they do?!!

I bet throwing this money to pharmaceutical companies in grants for THEIR research, is what they do......... and we keeeeeeeep giving

I dunno, the whole thing just doesn’t seem very candid, to me

-- Edited by Dogo at 20:04, 2006-12-06

PRINCESSA wrote:

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Good Question!!

Well I also give all year round, mostly to the Charity I work for, but I'm also a full supporter of Breast Cancer & Sick Kids.

In my family we all participate in x-mas time towards the Toy Mountain (each one in my house buys a toy to donate) & in my work we are this year going to give a shot in "Adopting a family" program.

Althou I do have to say that I ONLY give to charities that I'm affected by & believe in their mission & of course I also check their Annual Reports.

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Maybe you shouldn't mention the charities you donate to.  As the saying goes, "lo que da la mano derecha no lo tiene que saber la izquierda"

Whatever.  Good for you Princessa.  I CERTAINLY didn't take your post as BRAGGING nor did I think you were wishing for PRAISE!!!!!

Julie wrote:

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Pick me  pick me  pick me  .................I know the answer

 

 

 

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I pick JULIE!!!!!!!!! to answer the questions ... which mall? and what time?

Pick me  pick me  pick me  .................I know the answer

 

 

 

Good Question!!

Well I also give all year round, mostly to the Charity I work for, but I'm also a full supporter of Breast Cancer & Sick Kids.

In my family we all participate in x-mas time towards the Toy Mountain (each one in my house buys a toy to donate) & in my work we are this year going to give a shot in "Adopting a family" program.

Althou I do have to say that I ONLY give to charities that I'm affected by & believe in their mission & of course I also check their Annual Reports.

angelita wrote:

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confundida wrote:

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YEP WORKING AS AN ELF LIKE LAST YR!!!!

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 I almost forgot! We'll be dropping by this Saturday!! Hook it up with freebies

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Where where where??? Time and place please and thank you

Confu confu confu!!! Girl, where are you working???

Gonna take my little niece to see Santa ...

Let me know okis dokis!

Pfff, no fire extinguisher for you next Saturday !!!!!

confundida wrote:

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YEP WORKING AS AN ELF LIKE LAST YR!!!!

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Look so cute in your little outfit

MJ,.. Why is it wrong to think like that?? I always have thought that NOBODY neds to know what you do or give to others,. just you can mention the different charities,,.but  I guess , I took it the worng way,.. and not as a joke,.. now I know,.. for the next time,. and it s not only for u ,.  besides LC and DG were just mentioning,. and not saying I donate to this and that,.. u were jocking,. and besides,. they didn't say I donate to this or that charity,. and I would just leave it like that ,.. I didn't want to offend u,..

Motown Junkie wrote:

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I donate to charities all year round.  I don't see why Christmas should be the only time for "giving". 

El Pibe donates to the Cancer Society and I donate to Sick Kids, PETA, WWF, Marfan's Association, and The Toronto Humane Society. 

 

 

#@$%!!!!  No wonder why I'm broke!!!! 

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Good for you,. and I totally agree in the first part of ur post ,. but something that makes me think about ur post is why do u have to mentioned all the charities u donate ,.. and then say "No wonder why I'm broke!!!!" it sounded lik you are regreting what u r doing,.besides,. como dicen"lo que da la mano derecha no lo tiene que saber la izquierda"

@ GOD: So your offering?? See, there you go that is the Christmas Spirit

** Yeah, I agree with MJ ... but I don't donate umm welll let me just say WOW, to MJ!

I buy all the cancer lotteries yearly ... haven't won big but it goes for a good 'cause

Bah Humbah!

I donate to charities all year round.  I don't see why Christmas should be the only time for "giving". 

El Pibe donates to the Cancer Society and I donate to Sick Kids, PETA, WWF, Marfan's Association, and The Toronto Humane Society. 

 

 

#@$%!!!!  No wonder why I'm broke!!!! 

God wrote:

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yeah I might get a nice pedicure and full body massage.

-- Edited by God at 14:00, 2006-11-30

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Hello hello there

Ok, how about for others???