Do you question religion?

Miel · Guru

RE: Do you question religion?

LAB_ · Guru

As to the main topic of this thread.

Religion is not "something". Religion needs to be formulated, enunciated by, at least, one person. Also, religion is, depending who's talking, either a projection of the human mind, in which "a god" is assumed to be involved with the existence of the religious person in question, or a human response to a revelation from God, in the case of christianity, the same God who approaches human kind in Jesus Christ, through the Holy Spirit.

But other religions could give you a different account of what's going on between God, humankind and Creation/Nature.

The Church (whether it's the Roman Catholic Church or any of the OTHER 38 000 christian denonimations there are in the world today- is not all there is to religion, nor is Islam or any other organized way of linking humankind with God (what "religion" is all about... re-ligare ... re-connect).

What can be challenged, because they are material, are the entities, institutions, headquarters, authorities of the different religions. Their pronouncements, actions and teachings, too many times, fall behind the evidence and the most obvious judgement.

But "religious institutions" will only demand so much from their followers/members. Most of the times, whether it's the Roman Church in Latin America ignoring both the homosexual wave and the growing discontent among the youth or the Budhist refusing to engage in reconciliation work with the muslim in Pakistan.

Religious institutions are, "by nature", conservative and slow to change, and even when that has meant, many times in history, a blessing, it's in ocassions like the ones people have mentioned before that every religion falls short from its call to understand that, when it's about religion, it involves "all" about "god" and "all" about "human kind".

And it's precisely when that relation becomes too difficult to preserve, when the pace becomes too fast to follow, that insittutions begin to put up laws, prohibitions and taboos.

As for questioning "the church" as in "the 38 001 christian groups and denominations there are in the world"... well, sure, please. For crying outloud, the church as we know it, for too long and too often in history, has placed itself on the side of the powerful and brutal, it has blessed genocides, cursed freedom and canonized ignorance and fear. You could say that the same church that was born out of the wounded side of Jesus, tortured and murdered by the empire, that same church has spent nearly 60% of its history licking the spear and praising the good aim of the soldier and the good purpose of the roman occupation.

But what the church is doing, today, and the potential the church has, today, are very underated these days. Getting the church to understand certain things is easier, much easier, than shrugging away what we think is plain stupid and assuming that, somehow, because it is "the church", it oughta be right. And there's so much to do, not only in a church, but in any group, religious or not, that places human wellness and salvation as its goal, hope and creed.

The church, to me, anyways, is a beautiful possibility for human growth and understanding. And if the story of Jesus gets you going, well, why not try out a church that tickles your brain and your heart. Or a mosque. Or a sinagogue. Or whatever. But pushing your way through life without taking the time to develop what you'd admit makes you familiar with the thought of God is like knowing how to sing and still not doing it.

That's my opinion, anyways.

I got to understand and, actually, learn to tolerate most of my uncertainties, whether about religion or any other subject, after having had the chance to talk to blind people for extended periods of time. Then I think I learned to be more comfortable even when feeling uncertain. It's kinda part of being alive, isn't it.

Pelon` · Guru

LAB_ wrote:

Hey, Pelon.

My respect for your admiration towards JW. Since we are soooo coming from different perspectives about that one, I think it's only fair that we leave it that way.

If only to say that I'd be VERY suspicious of ANY group that claims to be legit just because some other group -the way THEY see it- isn't. That whole business of "other religions, what there doing is wrong or lacking of" is to me as dangerous as religious extremism. Actually, I'd say that claiming that any other group but your own "is wrong"... due to the fact that they are not like "your group", is as close to religious extremism as you a$$ is to water when sitting in the loo.

As for the Bible saying anything to the effect of not baptising children... Pelon, that's a argument that has been going on for centuries, and my fear is that both ends of the discussion are talking about totally different things. However, in support of the little ones, allow me to quote Jesus in the Gospel of Mark (10:14) saying: "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these".

(great article about baptism at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism

As for not considering yourself religious (due to all those bad experiences you had that made you gave up religion entirely) ... it's curious that, somehow, you still take the time to think that, when you "pray things go bad" and when you "don't pray... they go amazing strange huh?"... Wouldn't it be that you barely remember those things you prayed for that came out right and, still, cling like a madman to the memories of stuff you prayed for and still went "wrong"?. Cuz it is JUST THAT what happens to many people -little ol' me included.

And, as for dressing up for church. A little inside secret: sometimes people don't "dress up for church". Some people go out and, eventually, find themselves in church.

I'd say that it is rather pathetic that so many night clubs still demand certain clothing standards from their clients, at a time and age when even most churches are understanding, or at least accepting, the fact that what you wear is CERTAINLY NOT a symbol of who you are or how you think/act. The absence of baggie jeans and etc (to me, anywways) does NOT show, at all, whether or not you/any1 respect "the house of God". But I guess we differ in this regards too.

In any case, even the "holiest" of clothes would surely give you a lot to laugh about if seeing someone in church wearing them... even if it was non-baptised children who were wearing them:

Lab,

Some of the comments placed are true however I feel that some aren't and obviously this could go on and on. Like you even stated its just best to leave it at that.

Pelon` · Guru

GENIE wrote:

OK I see your points on the Jehova Witness religion. What would you do if lets say your Girlfriend wants to get married? But she wants the big catholic wedding and all?? would you convert just to please her??

Definitely I'd change for her in an instance. I'm okay like that. Most of what I do is for her anyways you know. It's a trend that typically happens and I'm not gonna be an a$s about it there is no need.

LAB_ · Guru

Pelon` wrote:
Good Morning Guys,
I agree to some degree with torontotrucho. I personally was raised in a Christian Church was never baptism cause parents thought it was my decision kinda thing. I disagree how parents baptize there children at such a young age (infants). The bible states (unfortunately I don't know where) that one should choose for either they want to pursue and devote there lives to the word of God. It's not in those exact words but along those lines. I myself don't consider myself to be religious, I've had a few bad experiences in life and just gave up totally of religion. This might sound crazy but I pray things go bad I don't pray and they go amazing strange huh?
Parents now are Jehovah Witnesses and to be honest if I do become religious at one point in life I'll possibly would become a JW. I see there teachings, door-to-door preaching, the constant effort to preach the word of Jehovah. It's nice to see how children read the bible so freely and have the ability of speaking it infront of a wide crowd with such knowledge of his word that it makes you think and reflect on other religions what there doing is wrong or lacking of.
The rest of my cousins, aunts, and uncles are all Catholic and to me it's just a big joke. I don't even know how they could actually call themselves to be Catholic when they only go to Church on special occasions. I never understood that. Or they only pray when something goes wrong. On a few attempts of pleasing my girlfriend we went to a spanish church in Scarborough (Markham & Ellesmere) on a Sunday afternoon. I walked in all dressed up because I see it with my parents and little sister. As I walk in and we sit down people were still entering the Church and what do I see? Baggy jeans, a t-shirt, runners? Girls with there super tight a$s outfits? No no you're going into the house of God at least have some type of respect. Another point given to theJW's. They all dress appropriate. I'm not saying all Catholic people are this way but the ones I've seen are. My girlfriend personally is Catholic and she's so into its crazy! I'm not even sure how she ended up with me. I'm the complete opposite and avoid going to church or even being religious since I've seen it all my life.

Hey, Pelon.

My respect for your admiration towards JW. Since we are soooo coming from different perspectives about that one, I think it's only fair that we leave it that way.

If only to say that I'd be VERY suspicious of ANY group that claims to be legit just because some other group -the way THEY see it- isn't. That whole business of "other religions, what there doing is wrong or lacking of" is to me as dangerous as religious extremism. Actually, I'd say that claiming that any other group but your own "is wrong"... due to the fact that they are not like "your group", is as close to religious extremism as you a$$ is to water when sitting in the loo.

As for the Bible saying anything to the effect of not baptising children... Pelon, that's a argument that has been going on for centuries, and my fear is that both ends of the discussion are talking about totally different things. However, in support of the little ones, allow me to quote Jesus in the Gospel of Mark (10:14) saying: "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these".

(great article about baptism at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism

As for not considering yourself religious (due to all those bad experiences you had that made you gave up religion entirely) ... it's curious that, somehow, you still take the time to think that, when you "pray things go bad" and when you "don't pray... they go amazing strange huh?"... Wouldn't it be that you barely remember those things you prayed for that came out right and, still, cling like a madman to the memories of stuff you prayed for and still went "wrong"?. Cuz it is JUST THAT what happens to many people -little ol' me included.

And, as for dressing up for church. A little inside secret: sometimes people don't "dress up for church". Some people go out and, eventually, find themselves in church.

I'd say that it is rather pathetic that so many night clubs still demand certain clothing standards from their clients, at a time and age when even most churches are understanding, or at least accepting, the fact that what you wear is CERTAINLY NOT a symbol of who you are or how you think/act. The absence of baggie jeans and etc (to me, anywways) does NOT show, at all, whether or not you/any1 respect "the house of God". But I guess we differ in this regards too.

In any case, even the "holiest" of clothes would surely give you a lot to laugh about if seeing someone in church wearing them... even if it was non-baptised children who were wearing them:

-- Edited by LAB_ at 10:04, 2006-09-16

GENIE · Foro Master

Pelon` wrote:

Good Morning Guys,

I agree to some degree with torontotrucho. I personally was raised in a Christian Church was never baptism cause parents thought it was my decision kinda thing. I disagree how parents baptize there children at such a young age (infants). The bible states (unfortunately I don't know where) that one should choose for either they want to pursue and devote there lives to the word of God. It's not in those exact words but along those lines. I myself don't consider myself to be religious, I've had a few bad experiences in life and just gave up totally of religion. This might sound crazy but I pray things go bad I don't pray and they go amazing strange huh?

Parents now are Jehovah Witnesses and to be honest if I do become religious at one point in life I'll possibly would become a JW. I see there teachings, door-to-door preaching, the constant effort to preach the word of Jehovah. It's nice to see how children read the bible so freely and have the ability of speaking it infront of a wide crowd with such knowledge of his word that it makes you think and reflect on other religions what there doing is wrong or lacking of.

The rest of my cousins, aunts, and uncles are all Catholic and to me it's just a big joke. I don't even know how they could actually call themselves to be Catholic when they only go to Church on special occasions. I never understood that. Or they only pray when something goes wrong. On a few attempts of pleasing my girlfriend we went to a spanish church in Scarborough (Markham & Ellesmere) on a Sunday afternoon. I walked in all dressed up because I see it with my parents and little sister. As I walk in and we sit down people were still entering the Church and what do I see? Baggy jeans, a t-shirt, runners? Girls with there super tight a$s outfits? No no you're going into the house of God at least have some type of respect. Another point given to the JW's. They all dress appropriate. I'm not saying all Catholic people are this way but the ones I've seen are. My girlfriend personally is Catholic and she's so into its crazy! I'm not even sure how she ended up with me. I'm the complete opposite and avoid going to church or even being religious since I've seen it all my life.

OK I see your points on the Jehova Witness religion.

What would you do if lets say your Girlfriend wants to get married? But she wants the big catholic wedding and all?? would you convert just to please her??

Jaime Cruz · Foro Master

As mentioned before I also question religion because there are so many.
Scientology some consider a religion and follow it.
A few years ago in Waco, Texas David Koresh said he was Jesus or the chosen one and was made to look like a fool and eventually killed.
Every religion has it's set of followers, but catholics and I think Buddhists or something has the largest volume.
But how do we know if back in the day the guy we are all to believe is Jesus was not just someone as crazy as David Koresh that happened to have many gullible followers?

Just a question Lord. Please don't strike me with lightning

Pelon` · Guru

Good Morning Guys,

I agree to some degree with torontotrucho. I personally was raised in a Christian Church was never baptism cause parents thought it was my decision kinda thing. I disagree how parents baptize there children at such a young age (infants). The bible states (unfortunately I don't know where) that one should choose for either they want to pursue and devote there lives to the word of God. It's not in those exact words but along those lines. I myself don't consider myself to be religious, I've had a few bad experiences in life and just gave up totally of religion. This might sound crazy but I pray things go bad I don't pray and they go amazing strange huh?

Parents now are Jehovah Witnesses and to be honest if I do become religious at one point in life I'll possibly would become a JW. I see there teachings, door-to-door preaching, the constant effort to preach the word of Jehovah. It's nice to see how children read the bible so freely and have the ability of speaking it infront of a wide crowd with such knowledge of his word that it makes you think and reflect on other religions what there doing is wrong or lacking of.

The rest of my cousins, aunts, and uncles are all Catholic and to me it's just a big joke. I don't even know how they could actually call themselves to be Catholic when they only go to Church on special occasions. I never understood that. Or they only pray when something goes wrong. On a few attempts of pleasing my girlfriend we went to a spanish church in Scarborough (Markham & Ellesmere) on a Sunday afternoon. I walked in all dressed up because I see it with my parents and little sister. As I walk in and we sit down people were still entering the Church and what do I see? Baggy jeans, a t-shirt, runners? Girls with there super tight a$s outfits? No no you're going into the house of God at least have some type of respect. Another point given to the JW's. They all dress appropriate. I'm not saying all Catholic people are this way but the ones I've seen are. My girlfriend personally is Catholic and she's so into its crazy! I'm not even sure how she ended up with me. I'm the complete opposite and avoid going to church or even being religious since I've seen it all my life.

torontotrucho · Guru

I believe in God and in Jesus cause I also believe there's evil out there. I also beleive what I read some where, God send a messenger to a group of people in ways familiars to them; some one who dresses like them and speak the same language,usually at a time of crisis. Some people call them "avatars", Jesus, Mohammed, Buddah,Lord Krsna,etc,etc.

I 'm not a religious man by the way. Too young still to be.

Cuando me vaya acercando al hoyo ahi si que rezare' con furia ,jejeje.

El Duro · Foro Master

Religion is a sensiable topic i was rasied a catholic but i think the church is very biased on lots of subjects and the bible controdictes it self

GENIE · Foro Master

Jaime Cruz wrote:

GENIE wrote:

I like many of you was raised in a Catholic household, my mother at one point was a very devout catholic and my baby brother was even an alterboy (no nada le paso). I was never really religious and she can vouche for that me and church were like water and oil!, In my own way i do believe in A God or better word a Higher being someone who is powerful or was at one time or another i do believe that the person created both good and evil and is testing us for the day we pass on not necessairly Judgement day! or the day the world ends but the day our lives end.

I have studied both in school and out of school different religions from Jehova Witness, to Chrisitanity to Hinduisim and Judisim and I guess thats why im all messed up lol Every religion believes in something so different but yet they are all based on a higher being, so to truly say that yes god and jesus exist they way the bible depicts them, I dont know if i can truly in my heart believe that.

my two pennies!

Well that's another thing that makes me question sometimes.
With so many religions and so many God's how do we know which one is real?
*Note - I would never consider scientology to be a religion*

my question too!! right now im studing the Musilim religion then i plan to take in the Buddist. There are so many religions its not even funny!

Think about it im catholic my mother is catholic but my step father is Prodistant (cant spell it) but the only difference is that they are baised on PRO CHOICE, they have ministers that can marry MY Grandfather is a Minister and they dont believe in the pope other then that its the same foundation!

Jaime Cruz · Foro Master

GENIE wrote:

I like many of you was raised in a Catholic household, my mother at one point was a very devout catholic and my baby brother was even an alterboy (no nada le paso). I was never really religious and she can vouche for that me and church were like water and oil!, In my own way i do believe in A God or better word a Higher being someone who is powerful or was at one time or another i do believe that the person created both good and evil and is testing us for the day we pass on not necessairly Judgement day! or the day the world ends but the day our lives end.

I have studied both in school and out of school different religions from Jehova Witness, to Chrisitanity to Hinduisim and Judisim and I guess thats why im all messed up lol Every religion believes in something so different but yet they are all based on a higher being, so to truly say that yes god and jesus exist they way the bible depicts them, I dont know if i can truly in my heart believe that.

my two pennies!

Well that's another thing that makes me question sometimes.
With so many religions and so many God's how do we know which one is real?
*Note - I would never consider scientology to be a religion*

GENIE · Foro Master

I like many of you was raised in a Catholic household, my mother at one point was a very devout catholic and my baby brother was even an alterboy (no nada le paso). I was never really religious and she can vouche for that me and church were like water and oil!, In my own way i do believe in A God or better word a Higher being someone who is powerful or was at one time or another i do believe that the person created both good and evil and is testing us for the day we pass on not necessairly Judgement day! or the day the world ends but the day our lives end.

I have studied both in school and out of school different religions from Jehova Witness, to Chrisitanity to Hinduisim and Judisim and I guess thats why im all messed up lol Every religion believes in something so different but yet they are all based on a higher being, so to truly say that yes god and jesus exist they way the bible depicts them, I dont know if i can truly in my heart believe that.

my two pennies!

LAB_ · Guru

Jaime Cruz wrote:

There was a weird discussion we had back in highschool that was very interesting...although the little priest who was our teacher almost had a heart attack.
When discussing a similar think like questioning religion somewhat brought up the question "what if we are all being tricked?"
The reason the student asked the question was because we hear about these characters based on what we hear from the bilble. Nobody really knows for sure what Jesus or what the devil looks like.
What if the Devil was the good guy and we were all tricked to believe that God and Jesus were the good ones. In which he also stated which is why the world has so many ongoing problems that seem to get worse as the years go by.

Kind of a twisted question he asked which does make you think.

I don't see how would have that worked, how could anyone know if there's a devil (I don't... we humans are plain stupid, and creation/nature is just fragile... we need to come to terms with the fact that there's SO MUCH MORE going on in God's creation / Nature than we know, and we are not important for most of it)

Typical hs question though. It assumes that the weakness of the prof's arguments is beyond the prof's inability to accept that, yes Jaime, I know it sounds stupid, but what do you want me to do, quit my job?

-- Edited by LAB_ at 15:59, 2006-09-15

Miel · Guru

Do you question religion or you question GOD???

Personally I don't belive in religions any of them even though I was raised catholic,. I do belive in GOD,. the bible was a book written by humans like us,. do we know if they are saying the truth or not???? NO,. we are unsure of that,.. but the world must of be created by someone or something SUPERIOR,... that some of us called GOD,..and I don't know question him/her/it because I know he/she/it exist,..or so it is my belief

Colombiana4Life · Foro Master

This is a George Michael song about religion that makes a lot of sense to me,

Praying for Time - George Michael

These are the days of the open hand
They will not be the last
Look around now
These are the days of the beggars and the choosers

This is the year of the hungry man
Whose place is in the past
Hand in hand with ignorance
And legitimate excuses

The rich declare themselves poor
And most of us are not sure
If we have too much
But we'll take our chances
Because god's stopped keeping score
I guess somewhere along the way
He must have let us alt out to play
Turned his back and all god's children
Crept out the back door

And it's hard to love, there's so much to hate
Hanging on to hope
When there is no hope to speak of
And the wounded skies above say it's much too late
Well maybe we should all be praying for time

These are the days of the empty hand
Oh you hold on to what you can
And charity is a coat you wear twice a year

This is the year of the guilty man
Your television takes a stand
And you find that what was over there is over here

So you scream from behind your door
Say "what's mine is mine and not yours"
I may have too much but i'll take my chances
Because god's stopped keeping score
And you cling to the things they sold you
Did you cover your eyes when they told you

That he can't come back
Beacuse he has no children to come back for

It's hard to love there's so much to hate
Hanging on to hope when there is no hope to speak of
And the wounded skies above say it's much too late
So maybe we should all be praying for time

Jaime Cruz · Foro Master

There was a weird discussion we had back in highschool that was very interesting...although the little priest who was our teacher almost had a heart attack.
When discussing a similar think like questioning religion somewhat brought up the question "what if we are all being tricked?"
The reason the student asked the question was because we hear about these characters based on what we hear from the bilble. Nobody really knows for sure what Jesus or what the devil looks like.
What if the Devil was the good guy and we were all tricked to believe that God and Jesus were the good ones. In which he also stated which is why the world has so many ongoing problems that seem to get worse as the years go by.

Kind of a twisted question he asked which does make you think.

LAB_ · Guru

jaime i'm not trying to be an a$$ or anything but, hey, most of them threads you've been coming up with are very interesting.

i'm glad you've got such ideas, cuz if it was up to little ol' me, all them threads would be somehow related to finding a date.

so, thanks.

and people, pick up the pace!

A religious person is someone who holds God and people in one thought at one time, at all times, who suffers harm done to others, whose greatest passion is compassion, whose greatest strength is love and defiance of despair.
New York Journal-American, April 5, 1963

LAB_ · Guru

God forbid we assume that questioning religion is wrong.

Not doing it, if you feel like it, is what I find wrong alright.

But how much of what we question do we actually engage with?

Does "question" mean "get pissed off at", "bored" or rather "hmmm, I don't think that belief actually holds water for me... maybe I am gonna go read/ask/think a bit more about it"?

soloyo · Regular Plus

that is such a difficult question -

I believe in GOD, but some of the teachings are outdated. Religions like everything else should progress with the times. Not to mention that they contradict themselves. Example: love thy neighbour but not if her is gay??

The amount of people that are "true" to their religion are very small and most of them are nuns/priest and those types of people. But even they are human and

Religion is true and honest; the bible hasn't changed in year. but the "institution" called church is corrupt.

Yesi · Guru

Ok, here goes, I do some times question my religion. I don't agree with a lot of the catholic teachings and I think this has a lot to do with how I feel. I mean after I read about all the priests taking advantage of little kids and women, you stop and think right, is this person a messanger of God? I HOPE NOT!!!!

I mean, I read the Davinci code and I know its just a book, but it makes you think. Why do people think God is a man? it could be a women? couldn't it?

ANyway I do think that there is a lot of lies in every religion. But I still believe that there is someone out there watching out for us, right??

I don't know maybe.

My two cents please don't get offended. Its not my intention but I do question religion.

yesi

Colombiana4Life · Foro Master

Jaime Cruz wrote:

Sensitive topic
*In advance this thread is not meant to offend anyone who is deeply religious.

What is your take on religion? Is there anyone who believes in God/Jesus, but at the same time has doubts?
We know the bible can't be taken literally word for word, but are there things that you think we have been led to believe that you might have doubts about?
Do you ever wonder or ask yourself if there is a God why do such bad things happen in this world? I mean wouldn't there be a point where enough is enough?

Discuss

As for me I am catholic and I was raised to believe in God and Jesus.
I do believe he existed, but I wonder if he is the saviour when will he save people. There is so much poverty and sickness on earth. It's been like this for over 2000 years. If he's real when would he say enough is enough?

Also I remember reading an article last year on a science study saying that based on the worlds climate cenutries ago Israel would have been a cold place. They believe Jesus may have walked on water, but when it was at a state of ice.

I was baptized and raised "catholic" you can say. I went to catholic schools. I go to mass here and there. I dont consider myself devout at all. That I believe in God and Jesus, very deeply. There are just certain things in the catholic religion that I dont agree with, but as for the morals of the bible and the universal message of love and kindness, Im on board with that.

Jaime Cruz · Foro Master

Sensitive topic
*In advance this thread is not meant to offend anyone who is deeply religious.

What is your take on religion? Is there anyone who believes in God/Jesus, but at the same time has doubts?
We know the bible can't be taken literally word for word, but are there things that you think we have been led to believe that you might have doubts about?
Do you ever wonder or ask yourself if there is a God why do such bad things happen in this world? I mean wouldn't there be a point where enough is enough?

Discuss

As for me I am catholic and I was raised to believe in God and Jesus.
I do believe he existed, but I wonder if he is the saviour when will he save people. There is so much poverty and sickness on earth. It's been like this for over 2000 years. If he's real when would he say enough is enough?

Also I remember reading an article last year on a science study saying that based on the worlds climate cenutries ago Israel would have been a cold place. They believe Jesus may have walked on water, but when it was at a state of ice.