Immigration Raids

neruda · Guru

RE: Immigration Raids

bistor · Guru

neruda wrote:

I guess I need to spell it out for you:
The topic was the deportation of illegal immigrants. You suggested that the Charter could protect these people. That is False. You bring up a section of the charter that doesn't apply and claim they are protected. Of course illegal immigrants have rights as afforded by the CORF such as the fundamental freedoms you mentioned. In regards to this particular grievance the Charter does not work well for this minority group. Ergo, my statement was true.
The mobility rights section cleary stipulates Canadian citizens and permanent resident and their right to enter remain in, leave , and work in Canada. No such claim can be made by illegal immigrants.It seems you gloss over this section to suit your argument. That is what you call "BS".

Continue backpeddling, but make sure you don't bump your ass on that wall!

neruda · Guru

bistor wrote:

neruda wrote: bistor wrote: neruda wrote: So much to respond to where do I begin? 1. Protection of minority rights via Charter, works well when you're a CITIZEN, not when you are outside the law, so to speak. This is false. Some rights, indeed, apply only to citizens (such as voting), others apply to everyone (such as freedom of religion, right to a fair trial, right to physical integrity, etc.). From http://lois.justice.gc.ca/en/const/annex_e.html Fundamental Freedoms 2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: (a) freedom of conscience and religion; (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication; (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and (d) freedom of association. Try again Bistor, Before you pass you pass your self off as something you're not, perhaps you should do your homework (unless you have deliberately obfuscated your argument to save yourself the embarrassment of people realizing you don't know what your talking about) The section of the Charter that speaks directly to this issue is mobility rights which intentionally included the words "citizen" to distinguish between people who have a right to be here and people who do not (said people mentioned above). Thus in regards to their right to live and work here in Canada, the deportees can not be shielded by the Charter from government action. -- Edited by neruda at 13:29, 2006-03-29 Cute. A.) You said, and I quote: Protection of minority rights via Charter, works well when you're a CITIZEN, not when you are outside the law, so to speak. That is FALSE. You are trying to reinforce your argument by claiming illegal aliens don't have rights. I'm afraid I had to point out your BS. Sorry. B.) I said: Some rights, indeed, apply only to citizens (such as voting), others apply to everyone. Thank you for clarifying, in a debate about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, that non-citizens do not have the right to reside in Canada. Next time, for your benefit, I will be sure to point it out as a right only afforded to CITIZENS, together with the right to vote, the right to run for office, etc. Thanks!

I guess I need to spell it out for you:

The topic was the deportation of illegal immigrants. You suggested that the Charter could protect these people. That is False. You bring up a section of the charter that doesn't apply and claim they are protected. Of course illegal immigrants have rights as afforded by the CORF such as the fundamental freedoms you mentioned. In regards to this particular grievance the Charter does not work well for this minority group. Ergo, my statement was true.

The mobility rights section cleary stipulates Canadian citizens and permanent resident and their right to enter remain in, leave , and work in Canada. No such claim can be made by illegal immigrants.It seems you gloss over this section to suit your argument. That is what you call "BS".

bistor · Guru

neruda wrote:

bistor wrote:

neruda wrote: So much to respond to where do I begin? 1. Protection of minority rights via Charter, works well when you're a CITIZEN, not when you are outside the law, so to speak. This is false. Some rights, indeed, apply only to citizens (such as voting), others apply to everyone (such as freedom of religion, right to a fair trial, right to physical integrity, etc.). From http://lois.justice.gc.ca/en/const/annex_e.html Fundamental Freedoms 2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: (a) freedom of conscience and religion; (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication; (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and (d) freedom of association.

Try again Bistor,
Before you pass you pass your self off as something you're not, perhaps you should do your homework (unless you have deliberately obfuscated your argument to save yourself the embarrassment of people realizing you don't know what your talking about)
The section of the Charter that speaks directly to this issue is mobility rights which intentionally included the words "citizen" to distinguish between people who have a right to be here and people who do not (said people mentioned above). Thus in regards to their right to live and work here in Canada, the deportees can not be shielded by the Charter from government action.
-- Edited by neruda at 13:29, 2006-03-29

Cute.

A.) You said, and I quote: Protection of minority rights via Charter, works well when you're a CITIZEN, not when you are outside the law, so to speak.

That is FALSE. You are trying to reinforce your argument by claiming illegal aliens don't have rights. I'm afraid I had to point out your BS.

Sorry.

B.) I said: Some rights, indeed, apply only to citizens (such as voting), others apply to everyone.

Thank you for clarifying, in a debate about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, that non-citizens do not have the right to reside in Canada.

Next time, for your benefit, I will be sure to point it out as a right only afforded to CITIZENS, together with the right to vote, the right to run for office, etc.

Thanks!

Chilenita · Comandante

neruda wrote:

You weren't there! Thanks I appreciate it. I hate getting beat up by women in public.

Nah I wasn't there I have been going through detox..staying away from bars and stuff....my new addiction is disgusting eating competitions.....I announced my retirement from that last week.

neruda · Guru

You weren't there!

Thanks I appreciate it. I hate getting beat up by women in public.

Chilenita · Comandante

neruda wrote:

Chilenita wrote: of course but like can't you just come to a foro outing and get drunk.....that is fun I did. I went to cerveceria twice. Where were you?

I was there and then someone said "Neruda's here" and I ran for the hills

I didn't want to get into a fist fight with you cuz that's what would have happened and I don't like beating up men in public....it makes them feel bad

neruda · Guru

Chilenita wrote:

of course but like can't you just come to a foro outing and get drunk.....that is fun

I did. I went to cerveceria twice. Where were you?

Daeveed · Foro Master

neruda wrote:

Hey can't a guy have any fun around here?!

Your sense of fun is twisted.

Chilenita · Comandante

neruda wrote:

Hey can't a guy have any fun around here?!

of course but like can't you just come to a foro outing and get drunk.....that is fun

neruda · Guru

Hey can't a guy have any fun around here?!

Daeveed · Foro Master

Chilenita wrote:

uh oh....he is back....

shhhhh shut up....please do not inconvenience the bearer of all truths.

Chilenita · Comandante

neruda wrote:

bistor wrote: neruda wrote: So much to respond to where do I begin? 1. Protection of minority rights via Charter, works well when you're a CITIZEN, not when you are outside the law, so to speak. This is false. Some rights, indeed, apply only to citizens (such as voting), others apply to everyone (such as freedom of religion, right to a fair trial, right to physical integrity, etc.). From http://lois.justice.gc.ca/en/const/annex_e.html Fundamental Freedoms 2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: (a) freedom of conscience and religion; (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication; (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and (d) freedom of association. Try again Bistor, Before you pass you pass your self off as something you're not, perhaps you should do your homework (unless you have deliberately obfuscated your argument to save yourself the embarrassment of people realizing you don't know what your talking about) The section of the Charter that speaks directly to this issue is mobility rights which intentionally included the words "citizen" to distinguish between people who have a right to be here and people who do not (said people mentioned above). Thus in regards to their right to live and work here in Canada, the deportees can not be shielded by the Charter from government action. -- Edited by neruda at 13:29, 2006-03-29

uh oh....he is back....

neruda · Guru

bistor wrote:

neruda wrote: So much to respond to where do I begin? 1. Protection of minority rights via Charter, works well when you're a CITIZEN, not when you are outside the law, so to speak. This is false. Some rights, indeed, apply only to citizens (such as voting), others apply to everyone (such as freedom of religion, right to a fair trial, right to physical integrity, etc.). From http://lois.justice.gc.ca/en/const/annex_e.html Fundamental Freedoms 2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: (a) freedom of conscience and religion; (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication; (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and (d) freedom of association.

Try again Bistor,

Before you pass you pass your self off as something you're not, perhaps you should do your homework (unless you have deliberately obfuscated your argument to save yourself the embarrassment of people realizing you don't know what your talking about)

The section of the Charter that speaks directly to this issue is mobility rights which intentionally included the words "citizen" to distinguish between people who have a right to be here and people who do not (said people mentioned above). Thus in regards to their right to live and work here in Canada, the deportees can not be shielded by the Charter from government action.

-- Edited by neruda at 13:29, 2006-03-29

LGigolo · Comandante

I think that some of us, Foro members came here illegally- OR – came legally, but overstayed / STAYED HERE ILLEGALLY ourselves.
If not us directly, some of our parents, grand-parents, or great grand parents may have… maybe an uncle, a friend, a friend of a friend – some kind of acquaintance. I don’t feel that it’s necessarily a bad thing provided that people come here TO WORK and make something out of themselves. By working, they pay taxes and contribute to the country/system and help the country grow and develop.
However, it’s the ones with intentions of taking advantage of the system that **** it up for the rest of the well-intended illegal immigrants. The people who somehow – under other people’s names get to collect welfare/employment benefits, etc… or even worse, those who come here and live out of profits from crime. It is THOSE people who need to be sent back – not the hard-working illegal immigrants who try to make a better life for themselves and their kids.
I did hear about the raid on DUFFERIN MALL – a LOT of LATINOS got caught there too along with a lot of PORTUGUESSE… Obviously, there must have been many other backgrounds as well.
There are a lot of people being deported… Many of whom have made large investments in the country – i.e.: purchased a house/condo. They are given about 2-3 weeks to pick up and leave… Not much time to put your property for sale, sell it, and get ready to leave. I FEEL FOR THEM.
I’m just glad that my ancestors –who, although they came here legally – they overstaid and at one point were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS – just like this people caught at Dufferin Mall – just glad that they did not have to go through this!

torontotrucho · Guru

I came to Canada as a landed immigrant, and eventually became a citizen; however, I feel like an immigrant and can't help to sympathize with the portuguese who have been deported. Most of them are hard workers who were contributing to Toronto by their work. The thing is, Canada needs so many thousands of new immigrants, immigration should have thought twice about a way to solve the portuguese's and other communities situation before physically capturing them and deport them. They prefer to get doctors,engineers, and other professionals who are going to end up driving taxis anyways ( not that there's anything wrong with that) but which is a cruel by-product of the canadian - experience experiment.

I agree, the law is the law; but I think they should come with better solutions. The law enforcers should start deporting criminals, rapist, scammers,etc; but they are probably affraid of them and choose to get the ones easier to catch ( the family oriented-hard working people ).

bistor · Guru

neruda wrote:

So much to respond to where do I begin?
1. Protection of minority rights via Charter, works well when you're a CITIZEN, not when you are outside the law, so to speak.

This is false.

Some rights, indeed, apply only to citizens (such as voting), others apply to everyone (such as freedom of religion, right to a fair trial, right to physical integrity, etc.).

From http://lois.justice.gc.ca/en/const/annex_e.html

Fundamental Freedoms
2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.

neruda · Guru

God wrote:

neruda wrote: 2. Regarding changes to the law: The Liberal gov't was actually in the process of implementing some sort of amnesty for skilled workers working in Canada illegally. However that was canned when the new Conservative gov't came into power (we spoke through the ballot box). The Conservative agenda has always had a stricter agenda in regards to immigration and I think this might be just the beginning of immigration reform. 3. Don't be too quick to knock the US immigration policy in this specific case. They are doing more to offer amnesty to illegal workers than we are. That's the big picture, and all it's about timing....look what George W Bush is trying to do...I won't be surprised if all this comes from "suggestion" from our friends south the border.

Tthe influence of the US on our immigration poicy cannot be overstated. Clamping down on illegal immigrants will become common news soon. I believe the portuguese community has been sacrificed. What will follow is a clamped down on Middle eastern and South east asian community. That's probably their real target (due to stereotypical fears and pressure from the US). Then they can deny they were just focusing on Middle Eastern and South Asian community.

But, hey, in predicting the future I've been known to be wrong. I've got to return my crystal ball.

-- Edited by neruda at 15:43, 2006-03-28

Chilenita · Comandante

neruda wrote:

So much to respond to where do I begin? 1. Protection of minority rights via Charter, works well when you're a CITIZEN, not when you are outside the law, so to speak. 2. Regarding changes to the law: The Liberal gov't was actually in the process of implementing some sort of amnesty for skilled workers working in Canada illegally. However that was canned when the new Conservative gov't came into power (we spoke through the ballot box). The Conservative agenda has always had a stricter agenda in regards to immigration and I think this might be just the beginning of immigration reform. 3. Don't be too quick to knock the US immigration policy in this specific case. They are doing more to offer amnesty to illegal workers than we are.

This is so true. SAD as hell but true. MAN I hate Harper.

God · Foro Master

neruda wrote:

2. Regarding changes to the law: The Liberal gov't was actually in the process of implementing some sort of amnesty for skilled workers working in Canada illegally. However that was canned when the new Conservative gov't came into power (we spoke through the ballot box). The Conservative agenda has always had a stricter agenda in regards to immigration and I think this might be just the beginning of immigration reform.
3. Don't be too quick to knock the US immigration policy in this specific case. They are doing more to offer amnesty to illegal workers than we are.

That's the big picture, and all it's about timing....look what George W Bush is trying to do...I won't be surprised if all this comes from "suggestion" from our friends south the border.

neruda · Guru

So much to respond to where do I begin?

1. Protection of minority rights via Charter, works well when you're a CITIZEN, not when you are outside the law, so to speak.

2. Regarding changes to the law: The Liberal gov't was actually in the process of implementing some sort of amnesty for skilled workers working in Canada illegally. However that was canned when the new Conservative gov't came into power (we spoke through the ballot box). The Conservative agenda has always had a stricter agenda in regards to immigration and I think this might be just the beginning of immigration reform.

3. Don't be too quick to knock the US immigration policy in this specific case. They are doing more to offer amnesty to illegal workers than we are.

Miel · Guru

Chilenita wrote:

Someone sent you a pm asking that? lol The people shooting eachother up are teenagers that are born and raised in Canada....not in all cases but in most.

I know funny,. but that is the misconception of your opinions,. anyway,. yeah you are totally right,. kids born and raise here in Canada,. "citizens" of this country,..

Chilenita · Comandante

Miel wrote:

JOKER_ESCO wrote: So Canada should just open it's borders n let any1 n every1 in???? Maybe some of u know some1 that has enter this country that way, so there 4 u guys have this point of view about I understand, but let's be honest things are not like they were 10 years ago, just look at the news every day, do u guys want Canada 2 become like the U.S. I don't. So you think that what is happening in Canada with all the violence and guns etc,. is because of immigrants???,..yes,.. 10 years ago things were different,. and 30 yrs were more different,.but what does has to to with immigrants??? BTW: I am not illegal ,. I just receive a pm asking me this,. so no,.. and If I were I wouldn't be ashame of that,.

Someone sent you a pm asking that? lol

The people shooting eachother up are teenagers that are born and raised in Canada....not in all cases but in most.

Salsera de Corazon · TOP Guru

Miel wrote:

JOKER_ESCO wrote: So Canada should just open it's borders n let any1 n every1 in???? Maybe some of u know some1 that has enter this country that way, so there 4 u guys have this point of view about I understand, but let's be honest things are not like they were 10 years ago, just look at the news every day, do u guys want Canada 2 become like the U.S. I don't. So you think that what is happening in Canada with all the violence and guns etc,. is because of immigrants???,..yes,.. 10 years ago things were different,. and 30 yrs were more different,.but what does has to to with immigrants??? BTW: I am not illegal ,. I just receive a pm asking me this,. so no,.. and If I were I wouldn't be ashame of that,.

WHAT?

Miel · Guru

JOKER_ESCO wrote:

So Canada should just open it's borders n let any1 n every1 in???? Maybe some of u know some1 that has enter this country that way, so there 4 u guys have this point of view about I understand, but let's be honest things are not like they were 10 years ago, just look at the news every day, do u guys want Canada 2 become like the U.S. I don't.

So you think that what is happening in Canada with all the violence and guns etc,. is because of immigrants???,..yes,.. 10 years ago things were different,. and 30 yrs were more different,.but what does has to to with immigrants???

BTW: I am not illegal ,. I just receive a pm asking me this,. so no,.. and If I were I wouldn't be ashame of that,.

LAB_ · Guru

ColombianQT_247 wrote:

LAB_ wrote:
ColombianQT_247 wrote: Jade wrote: Really?!?! Was this on the news by any chance? It was in The Sun yesterday. What the government needs to do is deport ALL these little punks!! Regardless of age!!! It's disgusting how hard working, law abiding citizens are being deported from a wonderful country whereas these little hoodrats are taking advantage of the system!!! DISGUSTING!!! Ok, NOW I am lost. Who should be deported? And why? And who shouldn't? What's with the AGE thing? Plz zplain?

I said.......WHAT THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO DO IS DEPORT ALL THESE LITTLE PUNKS!!! All these punks that are shooting and stabbing people; killing innocent bystanders (16 year old Jane Creba)

I don't know why you're asking WHY??!!!

Do you want to be living among these people that have no heart/morals?? Do you want your children to grow up with bullets flying everywhere??

The people that SHOULDN'T be deported are law abiding, hard working people!! Those that contribute to society in a healthy way!!
And in case you didn't notice, the majority of these idiots running around killing eachother are YOUNG.

I say if you're old enough to want to wound or kill someone REGARDLESS OF AGE, then out you go!!!!

The 12 year old that got stabbed was stabbed by someone who is POSSIBLY the same age. That kid needs to get out!!!

Hey, easy there.

Thanks for telling me who you think should be deported.

I agree.

I asked WHY because I didn't know WHO were "the punks" you were talking about, in the first place.

No, I don't.

Nope, I don't want neither.

I did notice: as said, I did not know for sure who were you talking about.

Yep, I agree.

Phew.

-- Edited by LAB_ at 12:27, 2006-03-28

Julie · Comandante

Migration is definitively a very touchy subject for everyone. So if my words might have offended someone, please excuse me and know that it was not my intention.

In my case, my parents (as well as all our friends and related family members) were first generation immigrants and I was the first one born there. As for myself, I personally experienced the process of migration to another country twice as an adult meaning that I had to take care of everything by myself. I am not planning to do it a 3rd time believe me, lots of paperwork, stress and money involved.

For more than I believe that they are honest people, working hard and really doing their best to get a better life for themselves and their family, they are still here (or anywhere else, as a matter of fact) as illegal and this is something that I disapprove. But for sure, all the ones those are illegal and are involved in crimes and delinquency should be the first one returned to their countries.

I know how hard it is to get the visa, for residency or for work, I’ve done it 2 times already, I had to make many sacrifices to make it possible and I am not only talking about money. So I know if is liable and therefore I find no excuse for the one that don’t even try and choose the easy way. Which at they end is worst than everything else since they always have to hide, can’t own anything or go back home to visit…. Is that a life, is it what they wanted ? I don’t think so !

As for the one that come here legally and live under welfare support (and those are not only single mom’s), never really try to find a job and are “complaciente” living like that and won’t make any effort, I think they should be deported to. They are people in needs that can not be attended as they should because of that.

I am also conscious that the laws are not perfect the way they are right now, but unfortunately, it is impossible to review every single case individually, if so, nobody will ever get there papers.

I mean I’ve done mine not long ago and I can tell you that the requirements are not that difficult to comply with. And please don’t tell me or think that is because of my background or something like this because it will be pure B.S, plus, I applied from Mexico and the fact that I wanted to get to Qc made the entire process longer and more difficult.

I find that Canada is really working hard to make the process easy and fast, compare to the rest of the places I know (US, Mx and Europe) and that if you really want to make it, you will.

Nobody ever said that it will be easy, newcomers will probably have to start from scratch even if they are qualified people, regardless their line of work. But I am convinced that if you really want to make it work for you and your family, meaning entering Legally in the country, you WILL make it just don’t expect it to happened overnight.

Daeveed · Foro Master

bistor wrote:

TV Buff wrote: And fine china. And condoms.

hahahahaha!!

GENIE · Foro Master

JOKER_ESCO wrote:

So Canada should just open it's borders n let any1 n every1 in???? Maybe some of u know some1 that has enter this country that way, so there 4 u guys have this point of view about I understand, but let's be honest things are not like they were 10 years ago, just look at the news every day, do u guys want Canada 2 become like the U.S. I don't.

they do now!!!!! why not keep going!!

bistor · Guru

TV Buff wrote:

Daeveed wrote:
bistor wrote: The main question of this thread is whether we want our country to become a circus, or should we live by the rule of the LAW. It sounds like you are a bit biased, but regardless of that I still think you're right. A country cannot just completely lack of any legislations in place to regulate something like immigration. I don't know what my point was.
As long as there are laws, there will be people whose main purpose in life is to break them. Same with rules. And fine china.

And condoms.

Date: Mar 28 12:02 PM, 2006

JOKER_ESCO wrote:

So Canada should just open it's borders n let any1 n every1 in???? Maybe some of u know some1 that has enter this country that way, so there 4 u guys have this point of view about I understand, but let's be honest things are not like they were 10 years ago, just look at the news every day, do u guys want Canada 2 become like the U.S. I don't.

Well Canada is better than the US.. because it opens the doors to everyone... maybe that's the problem...

and I don't want Canada to be like the US.... I have enough problems of my own...

JOKER_ESCO · Foro Master

So Canada should just open it's borders n let any1 n every1 in???? Maybe some of u know some1 that has enter this country that way, so there 4 u guys have this point of view about I understand, but let's be honest things are not like they were 10 years ago, just look at the news every day, do u guys want Canada 2 become like the U.S. I don't.

TV Buff · TOP Guru

Daeveed wrote:

bistor wrote: The main question of this thread is whether we want our country to become a circus, or should we live by the rule of the LAW. It sounds like you are a bit biased, but regardless of that I still think you're right. A country cannot just completely lack of any legislations in place to regulate something like immigration. I don't know what my point was.

As long as there are laws, there will be people whose main purpose in life is to break them. Same with rules. And fine china.

bistor · Guru

Daeveed wrote:

bistor wrote:
The main question of this thread is whether we want our country to become a circus, or should we live by the rule of the LAW.

It sounds like you are a bit biased, but regardless of that I still think you're right.
A country cannot just completely lack of any legislations in place to regulate something like immigration. Especially in Canada, where it is so important to sustain the country. I thikn in general the immigration laws in Canada are good, with a few exeptions like the one I mentioned before. The problem is that Immigration Canada is not nearly as efficient as it should be, and this creates a bit of chaos, raises patch solutions, and increases the chance for mistakes.
I don't know what my point was.

Biased towards following the law? I'm afraid I am, yes.

It doesn't mean I necessarily agree with all laws, but I think they should be followed, without exceptions. There are mechanisms to challenge laws you don't like. Doing whatever the hell you want is not one of them.

Daeveed · Foro Master

bistor wrote:

The main question of this thread is whether we want our country to become a circus, or should we live by the rule of the LAW.

It sounds like you are a bit biased, but regardless of that I still think you're right.

A country cannot just completely lack of any legislations in place to regulate something like immigration. Especially in Canada, where it is so important to sustain the country. I thikn in general the immigration laws in Canada are good, with a few exeptions like the one I mentioned before. The problem is that Immigration Canada is not nearly as efficient as it should be, and this creates a bit of chaos, raises patch solutions, and increases the chance for mistakes.

I don't know what my point was.

GENIE · Foro Master

When it comes to such a topic everyone has there own views and ideas! BUt to be honest with you Canada has the worst next to the United States Immigration Laws!!! Also very unjust! I would rather have all the portuguese ppl stay who I know are hard workers and have half of the latin community leave who are doing nothing but scaming hard working ppl! I know trust me!

Another thing do u know how many mothers are on welfare and yet keep having kids!!!! Why not send them back home kids and all im sorry but im not working hard to support other peoples kids!! not my cup of tea!

So since this is a very sensative topic i will now stay out of it!

TV Buff · TOP Guru

There are so many classifications of immigrants that it would be impossible to nitpick who should and shouldn't stay. There are migrant workers, totally legal, who only come here to work for the season and go back home after. Totally legal. There are the refugee claimants who don't get work permits, but are allowed to apply for welfare while their cases are being solved (which could take years and years) and some (most) work under the table. There are the totally legal, yet criminals, who are roaming the streets, are entitled to work, but they don't. There's the international students who pay 5 times what canadians pay for studying, but who don't get work permits, and yet some work under the table.

Economically, having cash jobs it's a boost to the economy. If the government allowed everyone to become a legal resident, there are expenses that they'd incur in that they're not willing to. It's all a matter of money. These illegal workers are a necessary evil. I know many people benefit from these cash jobs, and we as taxpayers are the biggest losers, but the economy is the biggest winner in all this: less pay, more revenue.

I don't know what the statistics are, but believe me, if the problem were first a problem and then serious, I'm sure the government would've done something about it long, long time ago.

Miel · Guru

Chilenita wrote:

Construction is a field in great demand right now,.. and beleive me I know what are u talking about but there is a lot of people that will hire the legal over the illegal,.. and about the salaries , that is a issue itself,. there is always gonna be unfair payment,.. Each individual meets different situations,.. Umm only in Alberta. Here in the G.T.A there is not much work at all and those who get the work are those who are willing to do it for much less and who are willing to wait until the builder feels like paying. This much I know for a fact Miel.

I know for a fact as well,. who doesn't have family/friend working in counstruction?,. Toronto is a city in which jobs decrease everyday,. not only in counstruction but in many other fields,. so yes you need to look out GTA sometimes to find a job,.. not only in Alberta,.

And there is always going to be jefes trampososos y abusivos,..

bistor · Guru

Daeveed wrote:

bistor wrote:
If you aren't a citizen, well, then I guess you don't have much say in the matter.

Even if you are one, you can have a say, but that doesn't help too much in changing anything does it? unless you have at least another 10,000 citizens with you....I'm just ranting about the flaws of democracy that's all...no need to reply, we'll go way off topic.

To a degree... democracy does protect minorities as well, there is the charter of rights and freedoms, etc. No majority can impose, for example, a state religion.

Not given our current legal framework, anyways... though that can be changed, of course... not easily (just ask canadian republicans), but it can.

The main question of this thread is whether we want our country to become a circus, or should we live by the rule of the LAW.

Chilenita · Comandante

Miel wrote:

Chilenita wrote: Miel wrote: Chilenita wrote: Salsera de Corazon wrote: and they put the economy in a better situation not always true salsera. Many illegal immigrants send most of the money they make right back home... Yes, it is true in some cases. But they have left their job here,. lets say in the construction field. They build the houses , house are sold ,. and most of the workers aren't paid what they should be paid for the work and hours they work for. Either way the economy is getting benefits from it. Right well even something like that effects immigrants who are here legally. A builder will hire illegal immigrants to build houses and pay them whatever they want.....meanwhile the honest guy just starting out who went through the legal process to get his papers can't find work in construction.... Construction is a field in great demand right now,.. and beleive me I know what are u talking about but there is a lot of people that will hire the legal over the illegal,.. and about the salaries , that is a issue itself,. there is always gonna be unfair payment,.. Each individual meets different situations,..

Umm only in Alberta. Here in the G.T.A there is not much work at all and those who get the work are those who are willing to do it for much less and who are willing to wait until the builder feels like paying. This much I know for a fact Miel.

Miel · Guru

bistor wrote:

Miel, all I can say is that, if you're a citizen, perhaps you should lobby your MP so that every tom, dick and harry can come into canada without papers. Very much your right as a citizen. If you aren't a citizen, well, then I guess you don't have much say in the matter.

I am not saying without papers,.. but CCI is pushing ppl to come illegally or to do other things like married for money,.etc,.etc,. and yes as citizen I can contact my MP,..the Minister of CCI and even the Prime Minister ,. but would they do something about it??? Last year my MP was under investigation so she couldn't help in any Immigration matter,. or and now she is still under investigation and is my MP,.. so as u say b4 the Laws are to follow.

Daeveed · Foro Master

bistor wrote:

If you aren't a citizen, well, then I guess you don't have much say in the matter.

Even if you are one, you can have a say, but that doesn't help too much in changing anything does it? unless you have at least another 10,000 citizens with you....I'm just ranting about the flaws of democracy that's all...no need to reply, we'll go way off topic.

Miel · Guru

Chilenita wrote:

Miel wrote: Chilenita wrote: Salsera de Corazon wrote: and they put the economy in a better situation not always true salsera. Many illegal immigrants send most of the money they make right back home... Yes, it is true in some cases. But they have left their job here,. lets say in the construction field. They build the houses , house are sold ,. and most of the workers aren't paid what they should be paid for the work and hours they work for. Either way the economy is getting benefits from it. Right well even something like that effects immigrants who are here legally. A builder will hire illegal immigrants to build houses and pay them whatever they want.....meanwhile the honest guy just starting out who went through the legal process to get his papers can't find work in construction....

Construction is a field in great demand right now,.. and beleive me I know what are u talking about but there is a lot of people that will hire the legal over the illegal,.. and about the salaries , that is a issue itself,. there is always gonna be unfair payment,.. Each individual meets different situations,..

bistor · Guru

Miel wrote:

bistor wrote:
Drug dealing and money laundering also add to the canadian economy! Let's keep it LEGAL. Change the law if necessary, but keep it LEGAL.
She was talking about WORK ,. i know u r gonna come back saying that money laundering a drug dealing is a "job" but here I think we know what we r talking about,.Immigration has nothing to do with that. But it is true,. and it is in every country,. Most of us only know what they show us on the news,.. but what really happens is different,..

Miel, all I can say is that, if you're a citizen, perhaps you should lobby your MP so that every tom, dick and harry can come into canada without papers.

Very much your right as a citizen.

If you aren't a citizen, well, then I guess you don't have much say in the matter.

Daeveed · Foro Master

bistor wrote:

And I agree with you. The laws aren't perfect. But who should determine that they aren't perfect? Rajan, the intern student from Bangladesh, or the canadian parliament? And while we're at it, who should decide when to cross an intersection? The LAW that says you shouldn't when the light is red, or Frank Johnson, who happens to be in a hurry? Laws are written for a reason!

I like to think of them as general guidelines.

Anyways...my nihilistic side tells me there's no point.

Chilenita · Comandante

Miel wrote:

Chilenita wrote: Salsera de Corazon wrote: and they put the economy in a better situation not always true salsera. Many illegal immigrants send most of the money they make right back home... Yes, it is true in some cases. But they have left their job here,. lets say in the construction field. They build the houses , house are sold ,. and most of the workers aren't paid what they should be paid for the work and hours they work for. Either way the economy is getting benefits from it.

Right well even something like that effects immigrants who are here legally. A builder will hire illegal immigrants to build houses and pay them whatever they want.....meanwhile the honest guy just starting out who went through the legal process to get his papers can't find work in construction....

bistor · Guru

Daeveed wrote:

bistor wrote:
Those that are working LEGALLY will have no problem remaining in Canada. Those that are working ILLEGALLY should not be here. Who the hell are they, and what the hell are they doing in MY house? Again, there are rules to the game. Whether it be as a refugee claimant, skilled worker, investor or other humanitarian reasons, just follow the damn rules.

I mainly agree with you.
But I think there are situations in which some people should not have restrictions to work temporarily. This given that it is on a part time basis, and for a period of time....or something like that. For example, I think people who come to study, should be allowed to work only part time. Students need money, especially when they come from outside. I don't think letting them have a part time job is a bad idea. That is why so many international students have their cash part time jobs...if they find them, they will probably get deported, but I don't think that is the right thing to do, any student is an investment for the country....but that's just me. As long as they keep studying, I think they all should be allowed to work.

And I agree with you. The laws aren't perfect. But who should determine that they aren't perfect? Rajan, the intern student from Bangladesh, or the canadian parliament?

And while we're at it, who should decide when to cross an intersection? The LAW that says you shouldn't when the light is red, or Frank Johnson, who happens to be in a hurry?

Laws are written for a reason!

Salsera de Corazon · TOP Guru

Miel wrote:

bistor wrote: Drug dealing and money laundering also add to the canadian economy! Let's keep it LEGAL. Change the law if necessary, but keep it LEGAL. She was talking about WORK ,. i know u r gonna come back saying that money laundering a drug dealing is a "job" but here I think we know what we r talking about,.Immigration has nothing to do with that. But it is true,. and it is in every country,. Most of us only know what they show us on the news,.. but what really happens is different,..

Yes Miel you know what I am talking about.

Miel · Guru

bistor wrote:

Drug dealing and money laundering also add to the canadian economy! Let's keep it LEGAL. Change the law if necessary, but keep it LEGAL.

She was talking about WORK ,. i know u r gonna come back saying that money laundering a drug dealing is a "job" but here I think we know what we r talking about,.Immigration has nothing to do with that. But it is true,. and it is in every country,. Most of us only know what they show us on the news,.. but what really happens is different,..

bistor · Guru

Miel wrote:

Chilenita wrote:
Salsera de Corazon wrote: and they put the economy in a better situation not always true salsera. Many illegal immigrants send most of the money they make right back home...
Yes, it is true in some cases. But they have left their job here,. lets say in the construction field. They build the houses , house are sold ,. and most of the workers aren't paid what they should be paid for the work and hours they work for. Either way the economy is getting benefits from it.

Absolutely correct.