This would be, ok, to begin with, not our average two-line posting. It's kinda long.
It's aldo a very extreme position on the subject of religion in society, but it may help us understand how difficult sometimes may be what we say as people with any kind of religious awareness.
It's also a humorous take on what many people refer as "cultural wars" -very visible in the USA, not as visible here but equally operative- and, compared to what "the other side" of the debate comes up with now and then, I think it's darn sane.
from dirtfiles.com
THE CASE AGAINST THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
Certain people with heads full of conservative talking points are going around saying things like: "So what if the Ten Commandments are put up in schools, courtrooms, interrogation centers and re-education camps?! What's wrong with saying Thou Shalt Not Kill or Steal?! The Ten Commandments are just a COMMON SENSE GUIDE for LIFE!!!"
This, of course, is total bull****. Some Commandments are very specific to Christianity, while others are downright un-American! Let's go over them one by one...
The First Commandment - Thou shalt have no other gods before me!
See? Right away, we got a big, big problem. America is chock full of people with other religions - Muslim, Hindu, Bhuddist, Taoist, Wiccan - some of them worship different Gods, some of them worship NO God. Does this Commandment belong in a court-house? Of course it doesn't.
The Second Commandment - Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth!
Now there's a reasonable, level-headed, common-sense rule for living! No statues, because they might lead to dancing, which leads to... you know...
The Third Commandment - Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
Goddammit, this one just pisses me off! This Commandment stands in direct violation of the First Amendment, which guarantees Americans' freedom of speech. And do you know what the Bible (in its infinite wisdom) says should happen to people who break this Commandment? "And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death." (Leviticus 24:16). How un-American!
The Fourth Commandment - Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates.
Yer old pal Jerky wants to know why religious conservatives consider such an arbitrary, obviously religion-specific regulation as being fit to be put on display in government offices and law enforcement facilities, many of which (hospitals, cop shops) are open all week long, 24/7...
The Fifth Commandment - Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee. And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
So if my daddy were Adolf Hitler, and I slapped him down when I found out about that whole Holocaust thing, then I should be put to death? In what way is this common sense? In what way is a person's relationship with their parents the government's business?
The Sixth Commandment - Thou shalt not kill.
Finally we get to a safe one, right? Wrong. For instance, most people are all for allowing cops to carry guns, and allowing them to use deadly force to apprehend dangerous, violent offenders. Most Americans are also pro-death penalty in cases where the crime is especially horrendous and where guilt is established with absolute certainty. Most people advocate the maintenence of our armed forces, who should be allowed to kill invading soldiers, if need be. Most people believe in an individual's right to defend oneself against aggression up to and including the use of deadly force against one's attacker. A great many people aslo believe that, should we ever face a painful, crippling illness, we should be allowed to choose our time of dying, and, if we are unable to do it ourselves, that we should be able to enlist the aide of another in 'killing' ourselves. And, finally, the majority of Americans advocate the availability of abortions, so that dangerous or unwanted pregnancies need not be carried to term against the will of the mother.
The Seventh Commandment - Thou shalt not commit adultery.
I ain't even gonna dignify this one with a rebuttal...
The Eight Commandment - Thou shall not steal.
The first reasonable Commandment... and it's number eight! We're almost done, here!
The Ninth Commandment - Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
This one is commonly misinterpreted as "Thou Shalt Not Lie," which wouldn't be reasonable (It would make police under-cover work impossible, for one thing!). Taken literally, however, this Commandment simply sez you shouldn't tell lies about other people. Don't say you saw this dude stabbing that dude if you didn't see this dude stabbing that dude... pretty simple, and the only judicially relevant Commandment.
The Tenth Commandment - Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
What? But coveting is the basis of CAPITALISM, baby! And capitalism is the engine that keeps America humming along. Therefore, this Commandment is the ultimate un-American statement!
I remember my mom had this little magnetic image of a saint in here car (it was supposed to be the Saint of the Drivers), and everytime she would start the car, she would do that cross thing with the hands and say something like "En el nombre de dios, que nada malo pase en este viaje".
My grandmother, she kept a little figure of Mary on the night table, and said that she would protect everybody during our sleep.
Personally, I don't practice anything like that...I guess the closest thing to it is that I have a place for my bong...
Sweetness wrote: Nope, because for us that would be idolatry. If we want to pray we just kneel down where ever we feel comfortable whether if it's in our rooms, in the livingroom and so on. For us kneeling down in front of any image and praying in front of it is idolatry, and that would be breaking one of the commandments. If we need to pray, than we just pray to God, and not to an image on the wall that has no life, or feelings, or anything.
Thanks Sweetness.
However, I would be very interested to know how do you manage to keep THE OTHER NINE COMMANDMENTS.
Nope, because for us that would be idolatry. If we want to pray we just kneel down where ever we feel comfortable whether if it's in our rooms, in the livingroom and so on. For us kneeling down in front of any image and praying in front of it is idolatry, and that would be breaking one of the commandments. If we need to pray, than we just pray to God, and not to an image on the wall that has no life, or feelings, or anything.
Bainaman wrote: We have a place where we keep a statue of the Virgin Mary. That's about it. When people start doing up their shrines...and making them bigger with more and more stuff....it start becoming idolatry. I agree with Baina. I have a figurine and a picture of the Virgin Mary. The picture is more for artistic purposes, it`s a beautiful painting. And I keep 2 veladoras and the bible by one of my night stands. I usually only light them when I`m praying.
Thank you all for the input.
I agree each person is entitled to his/her beliefs but none is entitled to judge or despise somebody else's beliefs -provided they are of no harm to others, of course. What is idolatry for you is simple affection for others. And viceversa.
Now, if someone else has anything to say about this subject -home religion, and what you do "religion wise" at home- I'll be delighted to read from you
We have a place where we keep a statue of the Virgin Mary. That's about it. When people start doing up their shrines...and making them bigger with more and more stuff....it start becoming idolatry.
I agree with Baina. I have a figurine and a picture of the Virgin Mary. The picture is more for artistic purposes, it`s a beautiful painting. And I keep 2 veladoras and the bible by one of my night stands. I usually only light them when I`m praying.
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Sooo, as I was asking before... do you simply keep these statues, or is it something done, said around them? Thanks.
Around them ?? like what,..?? THey light candles,.. and flowers ,. but nothing more than that,. and people pray around them,.. also some ppl se persina when they pass by them,.
As soem of u said,. it s idolatry but everyone with their costumbres,.. Los Incas solo como ejemplo,. adoraban al Sol y otras cosa mas,. pero para el Dia del Sol ,. tenian sus rituales,. el sol es Dios para ellos,..
Gitana wrote: does anyone here keep a certain spot in the house for religious purposes and actions? Like, "the" place to pray, remember deceased loved ones, light candles, use religious objects, readings, movements? YES WE DO.... WE HAVE A SMALL AREA IN THE HOUSE IN WHICH WE HAVE A FEW RELIGIOUS OBJECTS, PICS OF LOVED ONES AND A FEW CANDLES..... I GUESS IT'S OUR WAY OF KEEPING CERTAIN FAMILY MEMBERS ALIVE IN OUR HOUSEHOLD!
thanks gita, MM... miel.... By the way, Miel... "Sooo, as I was asking before... do you simply keep these statues, or is it something done, said around them? Thanks".
does anyone here keep a certain spot in the house for religious purposes and actions? Like, "the" place to pray, remember deceased loved ones, light candles, use religious objects, readings, movements?
YES WE DO.... WE HAVE A SMALL AREA IN THE HOUSE IN WHICH WE HAVE A FEW RELIGIOUS OBJECTS, PICS OF LOVED ONES AND A FEW CANDLES..... IGUESS IT'S OUR WAY OF KEEPING CERTAIN FAMILY MEMBERS ALIVE IN OUR HOUSEHOLD!
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TO SOLVE THE HUMAN EQUATION, WE NEED TO ADD LOVE, SUBTRACT HATE, MULTIPLY GOOD, AND DIVIDE BETWEEN TRUTH AND ERROR!!
We have an altar at home; most filipino families have one or at least a small table or corner set aside with statues and sometimes food offerings (yeah kinda crazy). a lot of devout catholics have the Santo Nino... the little statue is taken from house to house and prayers are done that night... my friends and I call it the Santo Nino World Tour cause it gets around. My family says they're not praying 'to' the statues per se, then why have them in the first place?
Personally, I find it all idolatry so I don't participate in praying to statues. They actually give me the creeps especially at night so I don't look at them.
Miel wrote: iN eCUADOR YES,. SOME PPL DO HAVE LOS ALTARES,. CON LOS SANTOS DE SU DEVOCION,. CANDLES AND PRAYERS,.. PERSONLAMENTE EN MI FAMILIA NO TENEMOS,.. BUT WE HAVE RELIGIOUS STATUES ,..
Sooo, as I was asking before... do you simply keep these statues, or is it something done, said around them?
iN eCUADOR YES,. SOME PPL DO HAVE LOS ALTARES,. CON LOS SANTOS DE SU DEVOCION,. CANDLES AND PRAYERS,.. PERSONLAMENTE EN MI FAMILIA NO TENEMOS,.. BUT WE HAVE RELIGIOUS STATUES ,..
Bainaman wrote: We have a place where we keep a statue of the Virgin Mary. That's about it. When people start doing up their shrines...and making them bigger with more and more stuff....it start becoming idolatry.
I´ve been talking to this chilean priest about popular religiosity, in the sense of beliefs and practices that are usually kept by individuals in a parallel affiliation with some "official" system of beliefs and practices. And then I thought that el foro was a good place to ask about just that subject.
Unless you find it a bit too forward to ask.... does anyone here keep a certain spot in the house for religious purposes and actions? Like, "the" place to pray, remember deceased loved ones, light candles, use religious objects, readings, movements? Would you mind sharing what you do around it? If you prefer you can PM me with your response.
I myself do, although it is a quite small arrangement: an icon of the Trinity, another of Fray Bartolome de las Casas and a picture of my closest relatives, plus a candle and incense stick holder. I have found that working with all of this helps with the home sickness.
In more developed examples, some cuban homes keep what we call bovedas espirituales, or spiritual shrines, a curious, autonomous mix of santeria, "popular" roman catholicism and spiritism.
"Most of us fall short much more by omission than by commission."
