muhammed cartoons

RICKYRICARDO · Guru

RE: muhammed cartoons

Quixote · Guru

There is no doubt that the cartoons are deemed offensive to Muslims.

The concern here is that the cartoons were published in a foreign country and the violent reactions are absurd.

Protesting is a valid method to express discontent as is prosecuting those who are accused of blasphemy. But the violence? Over cartoons in another country? Why?

As a comparison, that would be like North American womens rights activists acting violent toward Muslims and embassies because women do not have the same liberties and rights in Muslim countries as they do in North America. What is degrading and inhumane in North America is acceptable in Muslim culture.

These violent reactions are inexcusable and whoever even tries to justify them should really think twice.

Princess Jazmin · Senior Member

well shoot, if u really wanna get into the whole Israel/ Palestine thing...i highly doubt that Isreal would be an issue if they weren't sleepin wit the US foreign dept and lettin them run everythin...NO ONE WAS AS SHOCKED AS I WHEN ISREAL GAVE PALESTINE THE LAND THEY FOUGHT SO DEPARATELY FOR 50 YRS

it all comes down to strategic military and political alliances and to be honest and countries act in their own best interest ALWAYS...if they give you a concession one day its because they expect u to hand over weapons freely across borders, or reduce oil embargo prices, or even have access to domestic services othewise out of reach; there is no such thing as a free lunch

there is way too much cultural and historic turmoil between several different groups that exist in the Mid East so it is not easy to categorize and comment on the region without offending some denomination...they hate the fact that outsiders want to tell them how to live, and what to believe even if it is just an observation based on rational thought, many see it as a personal attack on their choice of living

travelgirl · Regular Plus

Princess Jazmin wrote:

i said this before and i guess i need to say it again, Islam does not allow for any pictures/visual representations of the prophet Muhammad or Allah...that would be why there is such a big stink about the caricatures. Christianity, Hinduism, Bhuddism, Sikhism etc. each has some kind of idol/pictoral represenatation that followers associate wit da religion...THERE IS NO SUCH IDOLATRY THAT EXISTS IN ISLAM!!! how can u compare a Christian's devotion to a picture of Jesus to that of a Muslim who has no conception of what their god/prophetic entity looks like, because they have never been taught to worship anything but the WORD of the prophet. Again, religion is everything that these people have becuase it is the only constant in their wartorn and politically unstable lives...desecrating that is what triggers the anger.

PJ - I agree with you, and I truly feel for the masses who just want to live peacefully in their own land. But, have we stopped to really analyse the reasons why they are in constant political turmoil and never get ahead? because their goverments - besides being corrupt - are too busy worrying about wiping Israelis off the map that they waste the aid given to them racking up arms to continue their needless war on a group that just wants to be left alone, instead of using to help themselves.

travelgirl · Regular Plus

LIVE AND LET LIVE...RITE...YOU KNOW I LEARN THAT WHEN IT COMES TO RELIGION AND POLITICS...IS BETTER TO LEAVE IT ALONE...IS A NEVER ENDING SUBJECT... I BELIEVE THE STORIES YOU COULD TELL ME...I KNOW THE AMERICANS (BUSH GOVERMENT) ARE REAL ANIMALS... F2CK THEM...AND LET THEM BOMB ME FOR SAYING THAT... BUT I ALSO HATE THE WAY THOSE CRAZY BASTARDS CAME TO DO WHAT THEY DID IN AMERICA AN THAT CHANCE EVERYTHNG...INCLUDING YOUR NICE TRIP THAT YOU TAKE TO THE WARM NICE US STATES (MAYBE) I BET THEY HARRASE YOU ONCE THEY FIND OUT THAT YOU HAVE MIDDLE EASTERN ROOTS...RIGHT?..SEE EVEN YOU PAY THE PRICE

I was in Hawaii island hopping a couple of years ago with a Persian Jew and we got stopped at every airport, told to stand aside and we got searched to no end, and harrassed by every airport personnel (5 different airport, 5 different "stand aside please"). I know that it's only a very small number of fundamentalists raising hell, but it's that small group who is going to pretty much bring about the world war. Just look at what's happening in Palestine. I admire Israel for not putting up with it. Now, I do have muslim friends and I feel for what the rest of the group has to deal with - the harrassment is never ending. We are all suffering here, and there is no end in sight.

Leo · Guru

No wonder the whole world is buying books on Islam like crazy but still we can't quite figure out where motherf.....s like, say, Pat Robertson, could come from.

So, Ricky... you do believe it was muslim nuts who did 911, right?

Precisely so all of Osama's remaining relatives on US soil could be flown out of the country while no aircraft was allowed to fly?

Not to mention the whole **** pile of evidence that connects in waaaaaay too intimate ways those who are benefitting from mass murdering iraqis/afghanis and mass raping of Iraq's/Afghanistan's resources with the 911 "executors" themselves?

Well, good luck.

Sweetness · Guru

Princess Jazmin wrote:

i kno when i used to read at Church, it was custom for us to bow to the Bible as a show of respect for the word of God...i doubt that Muslims worship the Koran as an idol and show just as much respect as Christians do the Scripture, we don't worship the Bible either as an idol but we do hold it in great esteem becuase it is the word of God right? and ur right, i was not specific enough in mentionin that i was referrin to Catholicism...Protestants as u said are not in that group

It's not that I'm trying to say that they worship the Koran as an Idol, but you said that they worship the word of the prophet right, and the word of the prophet is in the Koran, which is an object, which they bow down too, and bowing down to a holy book can be out of respect, but it can also be portrayed as idolatry, just for the simple fact that they bow down to it. Don't get me wrong if that's what they feel they need to do that's them and I'm no one to judge, but I was just making a simple observation based on what you said. That they didn't have idol's and such, because to me bowing down to a book would represant idolatry.

You know what though honestly in the end Christians, Muslims, Jews, and most religions talk about peace, harmony, only having ONE God, respecting one another and so on. They are simialr in a way, but it's certain idiots that take it way too far. Everyone is entitled to worship God in whatever way they were taught, or feel that is the right way or good for them.

RICKYRICARDO · Guru

Sweetness wrote:

Princess Jazmin wrote: i said this before and i guess i need to say it again, Islam does not allow for any pictures/visual representations of the prophet Muhammad or Allah...that would be why there is such a big stink about the caricatures. Christianity, Hinduism, Bhuddism, Sikhism etc. each has some kind of idol/pictoral represenatation that followers associate wit da religion...THERE IS NO SUCH IDOLATRY THAT EXISTS IN ISLAM!!! how can u compare a Christian's devotion to a picture of Jesus to that of a Muslim who has no conception of what their god/prophetic entity looks like, because they have never been taught to worship anything but the WORD of the prophet. Again, religion is everything that these people have becuase it is the only constant in their wartorn and politically unstable lives...desecrating that is what triggers the anger. THERE IS NO SUCH IDOLATRY THAT EXISTS IN ISLAM!!! Well in a way there is some idolatry in Islam. They do bow down to the Koran when they enter their temple of worship, so to say that there is none is wrong. To me that would be an example of idolatry. When you think of the word Muslim you think of Allah, which is just another name for God, but you also think of the Koran, which is a idol representation that followers associate with the religion. Just for the simple fact that they bow down to a book, and object is an example of idolatry. Yes there are holy words in that book for them, but it is still just an object, and they bow down to it, and that is idolatry. Christians have a the Holy Bible, but we don't worship it, or bow down to it. We follow what's written iside of it yes, and we worship God, and God ONLY. how can u compare a Christian's devotion to a picture of Jesus to that of a Muslim who has no conception of what their god/prophetic entity looks like, because they have never been taught to worship anything but the WORD of the prophet. This depends on what type of Christian you are talking about, because there are many different types of Christians, and not all of them are devoted to a picture of Jesus like you say. I think that the type of Christian that you are refering to is a Catholic Christian. There are also other kinds of Christians like Evangelicos, Baptists, Methadists, and so on. These and many more are Protestant Christians. They don't exactly believe that Jesus looked the way Catholic or Orthodox Christians believe he looks like. The Protestants of today can't say what he looked like when he was here on earth, because they weren't there, so you can't say that all Christians were taught that Jesus looked a certain way, because they weren't. I don't know about Catholics, but the Evangelics and other Christians were taught to worship God, and to follow his word, but were also taught not to pray or be devoted to a picture like you say, because that would be going against one of the Commandments. The one that talks about NOT MAKING IMAGES AND IDOLS, bowing down to them, and worshiping them. To pray at a picture of Jesus would be just that. I know that it's supposively a representation of our God, but no where in the Bible does it say that we should make idols of Jesus or God and worship those idols, because those would just be objects that have no feelings or emotions. There is no need to pray to a picture, why not just pray to God without kneeling down in front of a picture, or a cross, because that in a way would be idolatry, and like I said would go against one of the Commandments. Bottom line is only SOME Christians have idols (pics, statues of Jesus, and so on) and think that they have an idea of what our Lord and Saviour looks like. Protestants are not in that group.

SWEETNESS...THANKS FOR EDUCATING ME...CAN YOU TEACH ME MORE?..OR SHOW ME MORE./....SHOW ME MORE MAMIIII

Princess Jazmin · Senior Member

Sweetness wrote:

Princess Jazmin wrote: i said this before and i guess i need to say it again, Islam does not allow for any pictures/visual representations of the prophet Muhammad or Allah...that would be why there is such a big stink about the caricatures. Christianity, Hinduism, Bhuddism, Sikhism etc. each has some kind of idol/pictoral represenatation that followers associate wit da religion...THERE IS NO SUCH IDOLATRY THAT EXISTS IN ISLAM!!! how can u compare a Christian's devotion to a picture of Jesus to that of a Muslim who has no conception of what their god/prophetic entity looks like, because they have never been taught to worship anything but the WORD of the prophet. Again, religion is everything that these people have becuase it is the only constant in their wartorn and politically unstable lives...desecrating that is what triggers the anger. THERE IS NO SUCH IDOLATRY THAT EXISTS IN ISLAM!!! Well in a way there is some idolatry in Islam. They do bow down to the Koran when they enter their temple of worship, so to say that there is none is wrong. To me that would be an example of idolatry. When you think of the word Muslim you think of Allah, which is just another name for God, but you also think of the Koran, which is a idol representation that followers associate with the religion. Just for the simple fact that they bow down to a book, and object is an example of idolatry. Yes there are holy words in that book for them, but it is still just an object, and they bow down to it, and that is idolatry. Christians have a the Holy Bible, but we don't worship it, or bow down to it. We follow what's written iside of it yes, and we worship God, and God ONLY. how can u compare a Christian's devotion to a picture of Jesus to that of a Muslim who has no conception of what their god/prophetic entity looks like, because they have never been taught to worship anything but the WORD of the prophet. This depends on what type of Christian you are talking about, because there are many different types of Christians, and not all of them are devoted to a picture of Jesus like you say. I think that the type of Christian that you are refering to is a Catholic Christian. There are also other kinds of Christians like Evangelicos, Baptists, Methadists, and so on. These and many more are Protestant Christians. They don't exactly believe that Jesus looked the way Catholic or Orthodox Christians believe he looks like. The Protestants of today can't say what he looked like when he was here on earth, because they weren't there, so you can't say that all Christians were taught that Jesus looked a certain way, because they weren't. I don't know about Catholics, but the Evangelics and other Christians were taught to worship God, and to follow his word, but were also taught not to pray or be devoted to a picture like you say, because that would be going against one of the Commandments. The one that talks about NOT MAKING IMAGES AND IDOLS, bowing down to them, and worshiping them. To pray at a picture of Jesus would be just that. I know that it's supposively a representation of our God, but no where in the Bible does it say that we should make idols of Jesus or God and worship those idols, because those would just be objects that have no feelings or emotions. There is no need to pray to a picture, why not just pray to God without kneeling down in front of a picture, or a cross, because that in a way would be idolatry, and like I said would go against one of the Commandments. Bottom line is only SOME Christians have idols (pics, statues of Jesus, and so on) and think that they have an idea of what our Lord and Saviour looks like. Protestants are not in that group.

i kno when i used to read at Church, it was custom for us to bow to the Bible as a show of respect for the word of God...i doubt that Muslims worship the Koran as an idol and show just as much respect as Christians do the Scripture, we don't worship the Bible either as an idol but we do hold it in great esteem becuase it is the word of God right?

and ur right, i was not specific enough in mentionin that i was referrin to Catholicism...Protestants as u said are not in that group

RICKYRICARDO · Guru

Princess Jazmin wrote:

RICKYRICARDO wrote: Princess Jazmin wrote: RICKYRICARDO wrote: iM TALKING MOSTLY THE MULSLIMS EXTREMIST...THEY ARE REAL ANIMALS... i'm sorry that u believe everything CNN and American television tells u, but hey, once u go live in the Middle East, i hope u change ur mind...there's maybe less than 1% who are 'extremist' and again, if u live in an area where u have islamic sunnis and shias fightin, then i can see why u would think all Muslims are "real animals" I NEVER WISH TO LIVE THERE...I DONT NEED TO BELIEVE CNN...I KNOW OF ONE STORY THAT I SEEM MYSELF...==911 WE ALL KNOW THAT ONE....AND I DINT SAY ALL MUSLIMS ARE ANIMALS...DONT FIX MY STATEMENT one story by ur account does not classify a proper basis for judgement hon, i could tell u hundreds more that the US perpetuated on the Mid East, but u wouldn't take my word for it, becuz u'd never seen it shown in North American newspapers...but we could beat this topic to death and still come up wit no compromise, live and let live rite?

LIVE AND LET LIVE...RITE...YOU KNOW I LEARN THAT WHEN IT COMES TO RELIGION AND POLITICS...IS BETTER TO LEAVE IT ALONE...IS A NEVER ENDING SUBJECT...

I BELIEVE THE STORIES YOU COULD TELL ME...I KNOW THE AMERICANS (BUSH GOVERMENT) ARE REAL ANIMALS... F2CK THEM...AND LET THEM BOMB ME FOR SAYING THAT...

BUT I ALSO HATE THE WAY THOSE CRAZY BASTARDS CAME TO DO WHAT THEY DID IN AMERICA AN THAT CHANCE EVERYTHNG...INCLUDING YOUR NICE TRIP THAT YOU TAKE TO THE WARM NICE US STATES (MAYBE) I BET THEY HARRASE YOU ONCE THEY FIND OUT THAT YOU HAVE MIDDLE EASTERN ROOTS...RIGHT?..SEE EVEN YOU PAY THE PRICE

Sweetness · Guru

Princess Jazmin wrote:

i said this before and i guess i need to say it again, Islam does not allow for any pictures/visual representations of the prophet Muhammad or Allah...that would be why there is such a big stink about the caricatures. Christianity, Hinduism, Bhuddism, Sikhism etc. each has some kind of idol/pictoral represenatation that followers associate wit da religion...THERE IS NO SUCH IDOLATRY THAT EXISTS IN ISLAM!!! how can u compare a Christian's devotion to a picture of Jesus to that of a Muslim who has no conception of what their god/prophetic entity looks like, because they have never been taught to worship anything but the WORD of the prophet. Again, religion is everything that these people have becuase it is the only constant in their wartorn and politically unstable lives...desecrating that is what triggers the anger.

THERE IS NO SUCH IDOLATRY THAT EXISTS IN ISLAM!!!

Well in a way there is some idolatry in Islam. They do bow down to the Koran when they enter their temple of worship, so to say that there is none is wrong. To me that would be an example of idolatry. When you think of the word Muslim you think of Allah, which is just another name for God, but you also think of the Koran, which is a idol representation that followers associate with the religion. Just for the simple fact that they bow down to a book, and object is an example of idolatry. Yes there are holy words in that book for them, but it is still just an object, and they bow down to it, and that is idolatry. Christians have a the Holy Bible, but we don't worship it, or bow down to it. We follow what's written iside of it yes, and we worship God, and God ONLY.

how can u compare a Christian's devotion to a picture of Jesus to that of a Muslim who has no conception of what their god/prophetic entity looks like, because they have never been taught to worship anything but the WORD of the prophet.

This depends on what type of Christian you are talking about, because there are many different types of Christians, and not all of them are devoted to a picture of Jesus like you say. I think that the type of Christian that you are refering to is a Catholic Christian. There are also other kinds of Christians like Evangelicos, Baptists, Methadists, and so on. These and many more are Protestant Christians. They don't exactly believe that Jesus looked the way Catholic or Orthodox Christians believe he looks like. The Protestants of today can't say what he looked like when he was here on earth, because they weren't there, so you can't say that all Christians were taught that Jesus looked a certain way, because they weren't. I don't know about Catholics, but the Evangelics and other Christians were taught to worship God, and to follow his word, but were also taught not to pray or be devoted to a picture like you say, because that would be going against one of the Commandments. The one that talks about NOT MAKING IMAGES AND IDOLS, bowing down to them, and worshiping them. To pray at a picture of Jesus would be just that. I know that it's supposively a representation of our God, but no where in the Bible does it say that we should make idols of Jesus or God and worship those idols, because those would just be objects that have no feelings or emotions. There is no need to pray to a picture, why not just pray to God without kneeling down in front of a picture, or a cross, because that in a way would be idolatry, and like I said would go against one of the Commandments. Bottom line is only SOME Christians have idols (pics, statues of Jesus, and so on) and think that they have an idea of what our Lord and Saviour looks like. Protestants are not in that group.

Princess Jazmin · Senior Member

RICKYRICARDO wrote:

Princess Jazmin wrote: RICKYRICARDO wrote: iM TALKING MOSTLY THE MULSLIMS EXTREMIST...THEY ARE REAL ANIMALS... i'm sorry that u believe everything CNN and American television tells u, but hey, once u go live in the Middle East, i hope u change ur mind...there's maybe less than 1% who are 'extremist' and again, if u live in an area where u have islamic sunnis and shias fightin, then i can see why u would think all Muslims are "real animals" I NEVER WISH TO LIVE THERE...I DONT NEED TO BELIEVE CNN...I KNOW OF ONE STORY THAT I SEEM MYSELF...==911 WE ALL KNOW THAT ONE....AND I DINT SAY ALL MUSLIMS ARE ANIMALS...DONT FIX MY STATEMENT

one story by ur account does not classify a proper basis for judgement hon, i could tell u hundreds more that the US perpetuated on the Mid East, but u wouldn't take my word for it, becuz u'd never seen it shown in North American newspapers...but we could beat this topic to death and still come up wit no compromise, live and let live rite?

RICKYRICARDO · Guru

Princess Jazmin wrote:

RICKYRICARDO wrote: iM TALKING MOSTLY THE MULSLIMS EXTREMIST...THEY ARE REAL ANIMALS... i'm sorry that u believe everything CNN and American television tells u, but hey, once u go live in the Middle East, i hope u change ur mind...there's maybe less than 1% who are 'extremist' and again, if u live in an area where u have islamic sunnis and shias fightin, then i can see why u would think all Muslims are "real animals"

I NEVER WISH TO LIVE THERE...I DONT NEED TO BELIEVE CNN...I KNOW OF ONE STORY THAT I SEEM MYSELF...==911 WE ALL KNOW THAT ONE....AND I DINT SAY ALL MUSLIMS ARE ANIMALS...DONT FIX MY STATEMENT

Princess Jazmin · Senior Member

RICKYRICARDO wrote:

iM TALKING MOSTLY THE MULSLIMS EXTREMIST...THEY ARE REAL ANIMALS...

i'm sorry that u believe everything CNN and American television tells u, but hey, once u go live in the Middle East, i hope u change ur mind...there's maybe less than 1% who are 'extremist' and again, if u live in an area where u have islamic sunnis and shias fightin, then i can see why u would think all Muslims are "real animals"

RICKYRICARDO · Guru

Princess Jazmin wrote:

RICKYRICARDO wrote: Princess Jazmin wrote: RICKYRICARDO wrote: ahh...f.@ck the muslims... WELL...THEY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR ANYBODYELSE BESIDES THEIR RELIGION PEOPLE...SO F@CK THEM...! WOW, i can't believe u just said that...have u met and spoken wit any Muslims to make that statement, better yet, do u have any true Muslim friends? that was a very ignorant statement to make

IGNORANT STATEMENT?..BUENO TIENES DERECHO A TU OPINION..BUT I DONT THINK SO...TENGO AMIGOS CRISTIANOS DE EGYPT...YOU SHOULD HEAR THEIR STORIES...ENTONCES NO LO LLAMARIAS IGNORANT STATEMENT...

Leo · Guru

tHAT, TO NOT TO MENTION...OOPss.

That, to not to mention that he could get torched.

RICKYRICARDO · Guru

iM TALKING MOSTLY THE MULSLIMS EXTREMIST...THEY ARE REALLY "MALATOS DE LA TESTA.."

-- Edited by RICKYRICARDO at 02:48, 2006-02-09

Princess Jazmin · Senior Member

RICKYRICARDO wrote:

Princess Jazmin wrote: RICKYRICARDO wrote: ahh...f.@ck the muslims... WELL...THEY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR ANYBODYELSE BESIDES THEIR RELIGION PEOPLE...SO F@CK THEM...!

WOW, i can't believe u just said that...have u met and spoken wit any Muslims to make that statement, better yet, do u have any true Muslim friends?

-- Edited by Princess Jazmin at 02:31, 2006-02-09

RICKYRICARDO · Guru

Princess Jazmin wrote:

RICKYRICARDO wrote: ahh...f.@ck the muslims...

WELL...THEY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR ANYBODYELSE BESIDES THEIR RELIGION PEOPLE...SO F@CK THEM...!

Leo · Guru

Yeah, I would suggest Rick to edit that comment.

Otherwise we might get torched here. Not cool.

Princess Jazmin · Senior Member

RICKYRICARDO wrote:

ahh...f.@ck the muslims...

RICKYRICARDO · Guru

ahh...f.@ck the muslims...

Princess Jazmin · Senior Member

i said this before and i guess i need to say it again, Islam does not allow for any pictures/visual representations of the prophet Muhammad or Allah...that would be why there is such a big stink about the caricatures. Christianity, Hinduism, Bhuddism, Sikhism etc. each has some kind of idol/pictoral represenatation that followers associate wit da religion...THERE IS NO SUCH IDOLATRY THAT EXISTS IN ISLAM!!!

how can u compare a Christian's devotion to a picture of Jesus to that of a Muslim who has no conception of what their god/prophetic entity looks like, because they have never been taught to worship anything but the WORD of the prophet. Again, religion is everything that these people have becuase it is the only constant in their wartorn and politically unstable lives...desecrating that is what triggers the anger.

bistor · Guru

rick wrote:

I think they are over reactin g however you can t make of mohammed , arabs are too religious .. you are just lookin for trouble !!!! ..

So, knowing theres an important fundamentalist faction within the muslim religion... why **** around with it? Why rub in the salt? I find it in bad taste, frankly, and believe me, I am very far from religious.

rick · Guru

I think they are over reactin g however you can t make of mohammed , arabs are too religious .. you are just lookin for trouble !!!! ..

bistor · Guru

I'm all for freedom of speech, but is making fun of a major religious figure really nescessary?

Leo · Guru

The way our world functions, most muslim people can "hear" us, but we can't make ourselves "be heard" to them. On the other hand, the accusations come quite handy to re-attach to the conflict countries that moved away from it looong time ago. And yes, those who are manipulating the facts and using histeria to mess with the masses.... no, am not talking about GWB.

travelgirl · Regular Plus

angelita dulce wrote:

Ummm, i'm just posting to say............Hey girl, long time no post!!

hi ad, i know. i'm way too busy at work and too tired when i get home. i'll try to keep in touch.

angelita dulce · Foro Master

Ummm, i'm just posting to say............Hey girl, long time no post!!

travelgirl · Regular Plus

I AM NOT GENERALIZING HERE!!! IT'S JUST A PERSONAL OPINION ON THE STATE OF WORLD AFFAIRS!

Ok, I have to vent. I'm not trying to continue the controversy over the muhammed caricatures, but, c'mon, this is getting outta hand. Muslims need to RELAX. People all over the world make caricatures of Jesus, God, and other saints, icons, etc, and most people don't bat an eye. In addition, the cartoons were also published in Arab countries back in October and the latter part of 2005 and muslims didn't twitch at all. All of a sudden they go up in arms!!! Give me a break. The fact that they have the audacity to put down - for lack of a better word - our rights to free press and free speech (while living in the western world) makes me sick. All I have to say is, if fundamental muslims living in - and obviously enjoying the benefits of - the western world don't like the rights and freedoms of such countries, promote hate, validate the actions of terrorists, etc., there is one very viable option for ya, GO BACK TO YOUR SIDE OF THE WORLD where you can repress women, free press, free speech, support terroristm, etc...

here is a good site where you can see the cartoons; they are actually quite funny. http://face-of-muhammed.blogspot.com/

Censorship

this one is my favourite. C'mon, it is funny.