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Post Info TOPIC: Stanley Tookie Williams R.I.P!!


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RE: Stanley Tookie Williams R.I.P!!
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Chilenita wrote:


 I am against capital punishment 100%.


Why?


 



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Hi Chilenita,
I used to be against Capital Punishment a few years ago, but I am not anymore.
The number of innocent people that have died due to it is small. With the advancement of DNA these days it's harder to convict an innocent man/woman than it used to be. I believe that you should get what you deserve. I can't imagine having a loved one taken away from me by a criminal and knowing that the killer would only get life in jail or have a chance of parole after a few years. That means the killer gets to live. Jail may not be the best place to live, but he'll live. I wouldn't be able to live with that.

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Chale_Tanga wrote:


@ Genie: Just because someone claims to be innocent does not guarantee their innocence.  It would be a wonderful world if everyone told the truth and we could take peoples word at face value.  But unfortunely, we can not.  And the evidence might not have been there 100% to back up the claims but once again, just because it is not there does not mean that he is innocent of the killings he was accused and convicted for.  


        ok so i take it ur all for Captial Punishment great but im not! SORRY i guess i believe life in prison is just that! and just because they take a life doesnt mean we should take theres! yes an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth is what was back when we didnt have civilization but how much better are we if we do the same that they did???


 



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Chale_Tanga wrote:


I think this is the most hilarious part of the article:"Hollywood stars and capital punishment foes argued that Williams' sentence should be commuted to life in prison because he had made amends by writing children's books about the dangers of gangs and violence."If thats all it takes now a day to get off the hook, then I forsee our childrens library full of books written by prisoners in an attempt to redeem themselves in the public eye.

"should be commuted to life in prison".....I totally agree with that he should have just spent the rest of his years in prison.

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Chilenita wrote:


 I am against capital punishment 100%.


 


would you kill Pinochet for what he did????



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chino cochino wrote:


Tookie Williams got what he deserved.If anything he was able to live a better life than he should have. He was on death row for so many years before being put to death. In that time he starting writing books to supposedly help kids stay away from gangs. He was nominated for Nobel Prize because of that and his charity work. BULLSH#T!!So he says he's innocent, but there are loads or hard evindence to argue that. He says he wanted to stop the violence and thinks freakin books were gonna do that. Please.He should have talked about the origin of the crips. How they operate and how they make they're money and grow. He never did that cause he said he ain't a snitch. No he's gone, but he left a gang legacy that will live on. I don't feel sorry for him. If they had given him clemency he would have gotten a second chance at life that his victims never got.  

I respect your opinion but again I guess this all comes down to wether or not you are against capital punishment.  I am against capital punishment 100%.

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I think this is the most hilarious part of the article:


"Hollywood stars and capital punishment foes argued that Williams' sentence should be commuted to life in prison because he had made amends by writing children's books about the dangers of gangs and violence."



If thats all it takes now a day to get off the hook, then I forsee our childrens library full of books written by prisoners in an attempt to redeem themselves in the public eye.

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Ummm, I'm not a supporter for CAPITAL PUNISHMENT at all.  I mean what good does "an eye for an eye" serve.  His death isn't going to bring the people back.  I agree with Chilenita, that is what prisons are for.  If someone has committed a crime yes they should pay for it, spend the rest of their lives in prison with just the necessity for living.


By reading this, it appears he expressed he was innocent and he was condemmed by what witnesses had said and declared.  Were there no camera's? I know justice is not 100% reliable and by killing him it doesn't make things better.


@ Chale: I feel for the victims and their family. But I feel for them even more now. For one, if he was guilty que ganaron con matarlo just open up the pain and 'cause another family to suffer the same pain.  Now what? Secondly, if this man was innocent (not saying he was) then we know that sooner or later things will come to the open how are these families going to feel??


I think prisons were made to take care of these situations, I don't agree that prisons should be a luxury.  I mean that some GUILTY people go to prison and come out lawyers or whatever ... Para me nomas una cama, su comida, agua, y que mantengan su hygiene.  


 



-- Edited by DulceGalletita at 11:32, 2005-12-13

-- Edited by DulceGalletita at 11:36, 2005-12-13

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@ Genie: Just because someone claims to be innocent does not guarantee their innocence.  It would be a wonderful world if everyone told the truth and we could take peoples word at face value.  But unfortunely, we can not.  And the evidence might not have been there 100% to back up the claims but once again, just because it is not there does not mean that he is innocent of the killings he was accused and convicted for.


 



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X4v13r wrote:


Daeveed wrote: I don't think that his sentence was excesive. He was responsible for hundreds of pointless deaths, and he even committed some of them himself. He was also responsible for a lot of pointless violence, and for being an awful example for younger generations of pseudo-thugs.    u took the words out of my mouth. Lets put it this way, if Saddam Hussein was to change now that he is in prison, do u think letting him go would be the right to do? X@vier

I am not saying let him go.  I don't think that is the argument.  I am saying if the message here is KILLING IS WRONG then why kill?  Makes no sense to me.  He was doing good things from inside prison in fact he was doing more to stop violence in L.A than most people do outside of prison.  I dont think he should have been let go at all I just think there was no need to kill him!

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Tookie Williams got what he deserved.
If anything he was able to live a better life than he should have. He was on death row for so many years before being put to death. In that time he starting writing books to supposedly help kids stay away from gangs. He was nominated for Nobel Prize because of that and his charity work. BULLSH#T!!
So he says he's innocent, but there are loads or hard evindence to argue that. He says he wanted to stop the violence and thinks freakin books were gonna do that. Please.
He should have talked about the origin of the crips. How they operate and how they make they're money and grow. He never did that cause he said he ain't a snitch. No he's gone, but he left a gang legacy that will live on. I don't feel sorry for him. If they had given him clemency he would have gotten a second chance at life that his victims never got.


 



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X4v13r wrote:


Daeveed wrote: I don't think that his sentence was excesive. He was responsible for hundreds of pointless deaths, and he even committed some of them himself. He was also responsible for a lot of pointless violence, and for being an awful example for younger generations of pseudo-thugs.    u took the words out of my mouth. Lets put it this way, if Saddam Hussein was to change now that he is in prison, do u think letting him go would be the right to do? X@vier

        no one is saying let him go but do u think that killing him is the answer??? so then taking his life will valedate the "murders" that they claim he did??? Im sorry but life in prison i understand taking his life i dont! after he tried to do more good then bad

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Daeveed wrote:

I don't think that his sentence was excesive. He was responsible for hundreds of pointless deaths, and he even committed some of them himself.
He was also responsible for a lot of pointless violence, and for being an awful example for younger generations of pseudo-thugs. 
 




u took the words out of my mouth.
Lets put it this way, if Saddam Hussein was to change now that he is in prison, do u think letting him go would be the right to do?

X@vier

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X4v13r wrote:


Chilenita wrote: Disgusting!!!  Yet another reason why capital punishment is stupid!!!  I followed this closely and was soooo dissapointed last night that nothing was done to spare his life!!! maybe u want to change ur last sentece...because a lot was done to help this man....I haven't really looked into his story but i have heard about him and what he did......I'm not saying that killing him was the best solution to the situation but like they say "if u did the crime u have to do the time!" and in this case i guess it was "an eye for an eye". X@vier


Yeah I'll change my last sentence to "not enough was done to help him".....I don't believe in capital punishment EVER but especially not in this case.  I am not sometimes"ish" on any topic and so I am always against capital punishment.


@Chale....I think that is what prisions are for.  I have known people who spent time in American prisions and it's not walk in the park.  You take a life then you spend your entire life rotting in jail.  Nobody has the right to take another life including the goverment.



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I don't think that his sentence was excesive. He was responsible for hundreds of pointless deaths, and he even committed some of them himself.


He was also responsible for a lot of pointless violence, and for being an awful example for younger generations of pseudo-thugs. 


 



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Chale_Tanga wrote:


let me ask you ladies something....What sort of punishment does the taking of another life merit?Before you answer, remember... the ones affected are not only the victims themselves.  There are families to take into consideration, lost dreams and ambitions, a life not fulfilled etc etc.

        OK SO TAKING HIS LIFE because they "claim" and this was never proven he did and thats why they were fighting! He till the day he died proclaimed his innocence! and all the evidence that they did not want to hear just go all misplaced how convienet right!!

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Chilenita wrote:

Disgusting!!!  Yet another reason why capital punishment is stupid!!!  I followed this closely and was soooo dissapointed last night that nothing was done to spare his life!!!



maybe u want to change ur last sentece...because a lot was done to help this man....I haven't really looked into his story but i have heard about him and what he did......I'm not saying that killing him was the best solution to the situation but like they say "if u did the crime u have to do the time!" and in this case i guess it was "an eye for an eye".

X@vier

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let me ask you ladies something....


What sort of punishment does the taking of another life merit?


Before you answer, remember... the ones affected are not only the victims themselves.  There are families to take into consideration, lost dreams and ambitions, a life not fulfilled etc etc.



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Chilenita wrote:


Disgusting!!!  Yet another reason why capital punishment is stupid!!!  I followed this closely and was soooo dissapointed last night that nothing was done to spare his life!!!


        YEAH I WAITED UP ALL NIGHT TO HEAR WHAT HAPPENED. Its so sad and i wouldnt be surprised if the crime increases or if something worse happens!! if i were arnold i would beef up my security! A LOT OF PPL WERE SAYING HOW DONT BE SURPRISED IF A CRIME SPREE STARTS TO HAPPEN AND BLOODS AND CRIPS JOIN FORCES! ITS SAD WHEN AN INNOCENT MAN DIES!


AND NOT ONLY THAT BUT VERY INTELLIGENT AND ONE WHO TRULY WAS SORRY FOR STARTING SUCH A MASSIVE GANG WHO IN HIS LIFE TIME NEVER THOUGHT IT WOULD GET AS BIG AS IT DID!



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Disgusting!!!  Yet another reason why capital punishment is stupid!!!  I followed this closely and was soooo dissapointed last night that nothing was done to spare his life!!!

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THE REASON THAT I POST THIS IS BECAUSE AFTER READING HIS STORY I THINK THAT THIS MAN WAS INNOCENT AND DID HIS TIME FOR HIS CRIMES NOT ONLY THAT BUT I THINK THAT MR.SCHWJRLEJRLWJ DID VERY WRONG I MEAN THE GANG MEMBERS WERE WILLING TO GIVE IN THERE GUNS HAVE THE COPS COME AND PICK THEM UP SO THAT THIS MAN COULD LIVE!!


HE DID DO WRONG BUT ALSO DID SO MANY RIGHT THINGS!! HIS STORY IS VERY POWERFUL AND HAD SO MANY "ACTORS" BEHIND HIM ITS SAD TO SEE A 4 TIME NOBEL NOMENIEE WHO CHANGED HIS LIFE AROUND AND DID SO MUCH GOOD!! PUT TO DEATH


AND I DO BELIEVE THAT THE RACE CARD HAD A LOT TO DO CUZ MR.SCHOJDFLAJREL LAST MIN RECEIVED A PETITION FROM "THE MURDERED WHITE VICTIMS FAMILY" TO EXECUTE NOT ONLY THAT BUT TILL THE MOMENT HE DIED HE CLAIMED TO BE INNOCENT WHICH I BELIEVE IS TRUE THE "FBI" JUST COULDNT HAVE SUCH A STRONG INDIVIDIUAL ALIVE OR ON THE STREETS AND WAS FRAMED!!!


 



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Convicted killer Williams put to death in Calif.
Trouble finding vein delayed execution of Crips co-founder



IMAGE: Supporter of Stanley Williams demonstrates at San Quentin Prison
Lou Dematteis / Reuters
Death penalty opponent Delois Blakely of Harlem was among the hundreds who rallied for Stanley Tookie Williams outside California's San Quentin State Prison.

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NBC VIDEO





Launch


Execution vigil
Dec. 13: Death penalty opponents waited outside as Stanley Tookie Williams was executed early Tuesday. NBC's James Hattori reports.

Today show





SAN QUENTIN, Calif. - Convicted killer Stanley Tookie Williams, the Crips gang co-founder whose case stirred a national debate about capital punishment versus the possibility of redemption, was executed Tuesday morning.

Williams, 51, died at 12:35 a.m. PT after receiving a lethal injection at San Quentin State Prison, officials said. Before the execution, he was "complacent, quiet and thoughtful," Corrections Department spokeswoman Terry Thornton said.


The case became the state's highest-profile execution in decades. Hollywood stars and capital punishment foes argued that Williams' sentence should be commuted to life in prison because he had made amends by writing children's books about the dangers of gangs and violence.



In the days leading up to the execution, state and federal courts refused to reopen his case. Monday, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger denied Williams' request for clemency, suggesting that his supposed change of heart was not genuine because he had not shown any real remorse for the countless killings committed by the Crips.

"Is Williams' redemption complete and sincere, or is it just a hollow promise?" Schwarzenegger wrote. "Without an apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings, there can be no redemption."







Trouble finding vein
At the execution, the people administering the injection had trouble finding a vein in Williams' left arm. It took about 12 minutes for them to put in the line, said one reporter.


At one point, according to a reporter who witnessed the execution, it looked like Williams said to the guards in frustration, “Still can’t find it?” Then he leaned back down, the reporter said.


"He was trying to help them find a vein that would work for them," said said Steve Ornoski, the prison warden.


When he walked into the room, "all he would do is look at his supporters, then he made this dramatic turn and looked at all of [the media]," said MSNBC's Rita Cosby, who saw Williams put to death.


After he was strapped down, he raised his head often, especially to look at Barbara Becnel, the editor of his books and foremost supporter who helped bring broad publicity to his case.


Williams' supporters stood at the back of the room and gave what looked like black power salutes several times, said the reporters.


After his death, Becnel and two other supporters broke the silence in the witness room, saying: “The state of California just killed an innocent man.” They then walked out.


A relative of one of the victims wept as the prisoner’s supporters made their defiant statement.


Williams declined to give last words at the execution, and instead passed on a statement to be read by Becnel after his death.


In the days leading up to his execution, Williams' supporters and opponents appeared to be more occupied with his fate than he was.


“Me fearing what I’m facing, what possible good is it going to do for me? How is that going to benefit me?” Williams said in a recent interview. “If it’s my time to be executed, what’s all the ranting and raving going to do?”


Prison officials said Williams was composed and cooperative and said he did not request a final meal after eating oatmeal and drinking milk earlier in the day.


Condemned for 1981 killings
Williams was condemned in 1981 for gunning down convenience store clerk Albert Owens, 26, at a 7-Eleven in Whittier and killing Yen-I Yang, 76, Tsai-Shai Chen Yang, 63, and the couple's daughter Yu-Chin Yang Lin, 43, at the Los Angeles motel they owned. Williams claimed he was innocent.


Witnesses at the trial said Williams boasted about the killings, stating "You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him." Williams then made a growling noise and laughed for five to six minutes, according to the transcript that the governor referenced in his denial of clemency.


Williams was the 12th person executed in California since lawmakers reinstated the death penalty in 1977.


Celebrities protest
About 1,000 death penalty supporters and opponents gathered outside the prison to await the execution. Singer Joan Baez, actor Mike Farrell and the Rev. Jesse Jackson were among the celebrities who protested.


"Tonight is planned, efficient, calculated, antiseptic, cold-blooded murder and I think everyone who is here is here to try to enlist the morality and soul of this country," said Baez, who sang "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot" on a small plywood stage set up just outside the gates.


A contingent of 40 people who had walked the approximately 25 miles from San Francisco held signs calling for an end to "state-sponsored murder." Others said they wanted to honor the memory of Williams' victims.


Former Crips member Donald Archie, 51, was among those attending a candlelight vigil. He said he would work to spread Williams' anti-gang message.


"The work ain't going to stop," said Archie, who said he was known as "Sweetback" as a young Crips member. "Tookie's body might lay down, but his spirit ain't going nowhere. I want everyone to know that, the spirit lives."






Image: Michael Scruggs


Damian Dovarganes / AP
Michael Scruggs, a former founding member of the Inglewood Village Crips gang, protests Stanley Tookie Williams' execution on Monday in Los Angeles.




Among the celebrities who took up Williams' cause were Jamie Foxx, who played the gang leader in a cable movie about Williams; rapper Snoop Dogg, himself a former Crip; Sister Helen Prejean, the nun depicted in "Dead Man Walking"; and Bianca Jagger. During Williams' 24 years on death row, a Swiss legislator, college professors and others nominated him for the Nobel Prizes in peace and literature.


"There is no part of me that existed then that exists now," Williams said recently during an interview with The Associated Press.


"I haven't had a lot of joy in my life. But in here," he said, pointing to his heart, "I'm happy. I am peaceful in here. I am joyful in here."


Victims’ relatives not swayed
Williams' statements did not sway some relatives of his victims, including Lora Owens, Albert Owens' stepmother. In the days before his death, she was among the outspoken advocates who argued the execution should go forward.


"(Williams) chose to shoot Albert in the back twice. He didn't do anything to deserve it. He begged for his life," she said during a recent interview. "He shot him not once, but twice in the back. ... I believe Williams needs to get the punishment he was given when he was tried and sentenced."


In denying clemency to Williams, Schwarzenegger said that the evidence of his guilt was “strong and compelling,” and he dismissed suggestions that the trial was unfair.


The governor noted that Williams dedicated his 1998 book “Life in Prison” to a list of figures that included the black militant George Jackson — “a significant indicator that Williams is not reformed and that he still sees violence and lawlessness as a legitimate means to address societal problems.”


Schwarzenegger also noted that there is “little mention or atonement in his writings and his plea for clemency of the countless murders committed by the Crips following the lifestyle Williams once espoused. The senseless killing that has ruined many families, particularly in African-American communities, in the name of the Crips and gang warfare is a tragedy of our modern culture.”


Williams and a friend founded the Crips in Los Angeles in 1971. Authorities say it is responsible for hundreds of deaths, many of them in battles with the rival Bloods for turf and control of the drug trade.



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