YOUR THOUGHTS ON...

Lahtina · Foro Master

RE: YOUR THOUGHTS ON...

Dogo · Comandante

Bainaman wrote:

Dogo wrote: Bainaman wrote: You know what......Believe me or not.....I have thought about it once or twice....specially cleaning it up from wherever it lands ....but seriously...I have......I don't all the time......But I have felt bad about it. WHAAAAAAAAAAATTT!!!!???? you serious!!?? it never crossed my mind!! (SHIT!!!! I should've never read this!) I'M 100% SERIOUS!!! I have thought about it.........I don't think about it all the time..........But I have. Makes you feel like sssshhhhiittt for a while

STOOOOPP!!!! man! I'll never be able to ejaculate again!!!!! (nah, I'll get over it)

Bainaman · Foro Master

Dogo wrote:

Bainaman wrote: You know what......Believe me or not.....I have thought about it once or twice....specially cleaning it up from wherever it lands ....but seriously...I have......I don't all the time......But I have felt bad about it. WHAAAAAAAAAAATTT!!!!???? you serious!!?? it never crossed my mind!! (SHIT!!!! I should've never read this!)

I'M 100% SERIOUS!!!

I have thought about it.........I don't think about it all the time..........But I have.

Makes you feel like sssshhhhiittt for a while

Dogo · Comandante

Bainaman wrote:

You know what......Believe me or not.....I have thought about it once or twice....specially cleaning it up from wherever it lands ....but seriously...I have......I don't all the time......But I have felt bad about it.

WHAAAAAAAAAAATTT!!!!???? you serious!!?? it never crossed my mind!!

(SHIT!!!! I should've never read this!)

Bainaman · Foro Master

Lahtina wrote:

Bainaman wrote: But you're not giving it that chance......and who are we to decide which ones to discard or not. Again.....Like I said earlier.....I'm not trying to convince anyone or cry "SHAME" on all of you.....It's just the way I feel about it. The way I see it, in vitro conception only has that "sacredness" once it's implanted in the womb and actually growing. When the mother's love and hopes give it its meaning. It's that what gives it its value first. Or how is an egg and a sperm sacred or valuable to anyone when it's just sitting on a jelly dish (what do you call those things anyway?)? Do you cry about the chance you're not giving your sperm when you ejaculate? I certainly cry (sometimes) when I have my period but not because of the egg that "didn't make it". -- Edited by Lahtina at 16:56, 2005-11-15

You mean to say "petri dish"....no?

You know what......Believe me or not.....I have thought about it once or twice....specially cleaning it up from wherever it lands ....but seriously...I have......I don't all the time......But I have felt bad about it. What that means....I don't know.....

I wonder how mothers feel about this? Non have replied to the thread.

Lahtina · Foro Master

Bainaman wrote:

But you're not giving it that chance......and who are we to decide which ones to discard or not. Again.....Like I said earlier.....I'm not trying to convince anyone or cry "SHAME" on all of you.....It's just the way I feel about it.

The way I see it, in vitro conception only has that "sacredness" once it's implanted in the womb and actually growing. When the mother's love and hopes give it its meaning. It's that what gives it its value first.

Or how is an egg and a sperm sacred or valuable to anyone when it's just sitting on a jelly dish (what do you call those things anyway?)? Do you cry about the chance you're not giving your sperm when you ejaculate? I certainly cry (sometimes) when I have my period but not because of the egg that "didn't make it".

-- Edited by Lahtina at 16:56, 2005-11-15

Bainaman · Foro Master

Lahtina wrote:

Bainaman wrote: Thanks Lahtina. A life is a life. And I believe it begins at the zygote level (Thanks to Lahtina for the lesson). So...to me....no matter what......You're still killing a human being. It's not yet a life Bainaman, even in the womb that fertilized egg would need to have the right conditions for it to implant itself. Even nature discards potential lives without second guessing.

But you're not giving it that chance......and who are we to decide which ones to discard or not.

Again.....Like I said earlier.....I'm not trying to convince anyone or cry "SHAME" on all of you.....It's just the way I feel about it.

Lahtina · Foro Master

Bainaman wrote:

Thanks Lahtina. A life is a life. And I believe it begins at the zygote level (Thanks to Lahtina for the lesson). So...to me....no matter what......You're still killing a human being.

It's not yet a life Bainaman, even in the womb that fertilized egg would need to have the right conditions for it to implant itself. Even nature discards potential lives without second guessing.

Bainaman · Foro Master

Chilenita wrote:

Bainaman wrote: Thanks Lahtina. A life is a life. And I believe it begins at the zygote level (Thanks to Lahtina for the lesson). So...to me....no matter what......You're still killing a human being. Do you consider yourself a very religious person?

I would have more so a couple of years ago......but not so much now.

Chilenita · Comandante

Bainaman wrote:

Thanks Lahtina. A life is a life. And I believe it begins at the zygote level (Thanks to Lahtina for the lesson). So...to me....no matter what......You're still killing a human being.

Do you consider yourself a very religious person?

Bainaman · Foro Master

Thanks Lahtina.

A life is a life. And I believe it begins at the zygote level (Thanks to Lahtina for the lesson).

So...to me....no matter what......You're still killing a human being.

Daeveed · Foro Master

Thanks, that was good!

Lahtina · Foro Master

I think one of the reasons why people object stem cell research is because they are misinformed.

The debate about stem cells is not an extension of the abortion debate. Abortion involves the question of whether or not it is right for a mother to decide the fate of an unwanted pregnancy or "unhealthy" pregnancy. When it comes to embryonic stem cells, the cultured cells are obtained from the undifferentiated inner mass cells of a blastocyst.

I'll make a digression for the purpose of clarification courtesy of wikipedia.org. A blastocyst is an early stage embryo that is 50 to 150 cells. A mammal develops from a single cell called a zygote, which results from an oocyte (egg) being fertilized by a single sperm. The zygote is surrounded by a strong membrane of glycoproteins called the zona pellucida which the successful sperm has managed to penetrate.

The zygote undergoes cleavage, increasing the number of cells within the zona pellucida. When there are about 4 to 16 cells, the embryo is in the morula stage. When the number of cells reaches 40 to 150, a central, fluid-filled cavity (blastocoel) forms. The zona pellucida begins to degenerate. This stage in the developing embryo is the blastocyst, and lasts approximately until the implantation in the uterus. The outer cells develop into the placenta.

"More commonly, they are obtained for research purposes from uncloned blastocysts, such as those discarded from in vitro fertilization clinics. Such cells might be rejected if transplanted into a patient. A possible solution for this is to derive multiple well-characterized embryonic stem cell lines from different genetic and ethnic backgrounds; treatment can then be tailored to the patient, minimizing the risk of rejection." 1

We should also ask ourselves how we feel about how a life is conceived. Does a life in potential have the same value when it is conceived naturally, through of the union of a man and a woman compared to one conceived on a jelly dish with the help of a needle?

I personally feel that the embryos used should be those that are discarded from in vitro fertilization clinics. Those embryos are being discarded daily anyway and there are no regulations on the use of discarded human tissue for research that I know of.

1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Embryonic_stem_cells

X4v13r · Comandante

I support STEM CELL RESEARCH....like any other research they have to start somewhere but with time they will find a better way to get the same results.........the benefits from it are some of the best for humanity that scientist have had in a long time, like i said with time they would find a better way to get the same result thus the word RESEARCH.

X@vier

Julie · Comandante

I do beleive in research and stem cell research. I am just a little scared to think that we can now, almost do anything with it. It is almost like we can prevent death at the embryo stage and I think this is very dangerous, like choosing which baby or adult will suffer or not that x and y hillnesses. Do the poorest will be the unlucky ones ?

And as well, hy is there not more help given to the one already in pain. I mean fisical and psycological pain. We are trying to prevent diseases from happening or to fight them once they are in us but what about the right of those that do not want to carry on anymore ? Do we really take them in count.

I've met people that came back from a very long journey and that are glad to be here today but given the choice, some of them would have prefered to move on.

Bainaman · Foro Master

Daeveed wrote:

Bainaman wrote: hey don't look at me like that man....it wasn't me.

I didn't say it was you...

Why so nervous?

Got something to hide?

Daevinder Chilapatha is a very suspicious name

Daeveed · Foro Master

Bainaman wrote:

hey don't look at me like that man....it wasn't me.

Bainaman · Foro Master

Guadalupana wrote:

Well, the fact that many are dying from them gives me a good impression that it hasn't been found. Unless this cure is only reserved for the elite few. No i'm not a mother yet, but i also never said i agree with taking a life. Any life. Baina---you're good to debate with

*blushing

I do believe that there are cures out there for these diseases.......and I also believe that these diseases are been administered to us......

Daeveed · Foro Master

Bainaman wrote:

Just a thought... What if Stem Cell Research save a life that was meant to die? And that person becomes the next........ Hitler (for argument sake)??? He goes on to kill more people and do more wrong.....than the research saved and did good for.

I refute that by saying: "but what if that saved person becomes the next Nelson Mandela or Mother Teresa de Calcuta???"

Guadalupana · Foro Master

Bainaman wrote:

Just a thought...

What if Stem Cell Research save a life that was meant to die?
And that person becomes the next........ Hitler (for argument sake)???
He goes on to kill more people and do more wrong.....than the research saved and did good for.

Like Homolka or pedophilers?

Yup, even with stem cell, injustice will always go on.
This is of course for argument's sake.

Bainaman · Foro Master

Just a thought...

What if Stem Cell Research save a life that was meant to die?

And that person becomes the next........ Hitler (for argument sake)???

He goes on to kill more people and do more wrong.....than the research saved and did good for.

Guadalupana · Foro Master

Bainaman wrote:

Guadalupana wrote:

Abortion is the same thing. A life is still being killed.
I'm all for science, and yes though our religious upbringing taught us that God would see it as wrong, i'm sure he knew we were capable to figure things out, and for a reason certain things have been found out at this time/era/century. There has to be a reson as to why there hasn't been a cure found for cancer or HIV...only he knows. Everything happens for a reason. But i also agree with what daeveed says...what's the point in trying to find longevity, if others take it away with the pull of a trigger?
No matter where, or when, there will always be a crooked bastard that will use a new discovery to HIS advantage only.

How do you know that there isn't a cure for cancer or aids?
I disagree with the whole "people are dying sensesly so that give me the right to kill someone myself for greater good".......
Again....this is one of those topics where everyone will have a strong opinion on either side of the arguement.......It's great for discussion.
I wonder how foro mothers feel about the topic?
Sorry Guada...I don't know if you are a mother.....

Well, the fact that many are dying from them gives me a good impression that it hasn't been found. Unless this cure is only reserved for the elite few.

No i'm not a mother yet, but i also never said i agree with taking a life. Any life.

Baina---you're good to debate with

Daeveed · Foro Master

Bainaman wrote:

I disagree with the whole "people are dying sensesly so that give me the right to kill someone myself for greater good"

oh yeah?? well I'm gonna stem cell research your a$$ until you agree!!

You're right man, there'll be no consensus here, but it's great to share opinions.

Bainaman · Foro Master

Guadalupana wrote:

Abortion is the same thing. A life is still being killed.

I'm all for science, and yes though our religious upbringing taught us that God would see it as wrong, i'm sure he knew we were capable to figure things out, and for a reason certain things have been found out at this time/era/century. There has to be a reson as to why there hasn't been a cure found for cancer or HIV...only he knows. Everything happens for a reason. But i also agree with what daeveed says...what's the point in trying to find longevity, if others take it away with the pull of a trigger?

No matter where, or when, there will always be a crooked bastard that will use a new discovery to HIS advantage only.

How do you know that there isn't a cure for cancer or aids?

I disagree with the whole "people are dying sensesly so that give me the right to kill someone myself for greater good".......

Again....this is one of those topics where everyone will have a strong opinion on either side of the arguement.......It's great for discussion.

I wonder how foro mothers feel about the topic?

Sorry Guada...I don't know if you are a mother.....

Guadalupana · Foro Master

Daeveed wrote:

Guadalupana wrote:
But i also agree with what daeveed says...what's the point in trying to find longevity, if others take it away with the pull of a trigger

That was not my point at all!
My point is that the same people that are against stem cell research because it kills an embryo, are the ones that are responsible for thousands of deaths in meaningless wars nowadays.
So, why should I be against scientists using embryos for the benefit of all humanity, if there are meaningless deaths by the second all around the world?? Might as well use a life for something useful.

ok so i didn't specify..thank you for defending you point.

Daeveed · Foro Master

Guadalupana wrote:

But i also agree with what daeveed says...what's the point in trying to find longevity, if others take it away with the pull of a trigger

That was not my point at all!

My point is that the same people that are against stem cell research because it kills an embryo, are the ones that are responsible for thousands of deaths in meaningless wars nowadays.

So, why should I be against scientists using embryos for the benefit of all humanity, if there are meaningless deaths by the second all around the world?? Might as well use a life for something useful.

CrazyBeautiful · Guru

wat the heck is stem cell research???

Guadalupana · Foro Master

Bainaman wrote:

mara wrote:
Bainaman wrote: Soo...... All of you are saying that the end justifies the means????? What's your position on it Baina?

It comes down to whether you believe that life is present in an embryo...and whether you are willing to kill that life in order to do research.
Abortion is the same thing. A life is still being killed.

Though the benefits are great....I'm not sure that I can agree with the research. I see it as humans trying to be immortals and trying to play God and live forever, etc.....

I'm all for science, and yes though our religious upbringing taught us that God would see it as wrong, i'm sure he knew we were capable to figure things out, and for a reason certain things have been found out at this time/era/century. There has to be a reson as to why there hasn't been a cure found for cancer or HIV...only he knows. Everything happens for a reason.
But i also agree with what daeveed says...what's the point in trying to find longevity, if others take it away with the pull of a trigger?

Though the benefits great at first.......I can't help but to think that it would cause great ramifications in the long run.

No matter where, or when, there will always be a crooked bastard that will use a new discovery to HIS advantage only.

Bainaman · Foro Master

mara wrote:

Bainaman wrote: Soo...... All of you are saying that the end justifies the means????? What's your position on it Baina?

It comes down to whether you believe that life is present in an embryo...and whether you are willing to kill that life in order to do research.

Though the benefits are great....I'm not sure that I can agree with the research. I see it as humans trying to be immortals and trying to play God and live forever, etc.....

Though the benefits great at first.......I can't help but to think that it would cause great ramifications in the long run.

Daeveed · Foro Master

Tell me why the hell should I care that they're using embryos for the benefit of all humanity, when there are thousands of people dying with a bullet in their heads for no reason at all???

Daeveed · Foro Master

Bainaman wrote:

Soo...... All of you are saying that the end justifies the means?????

El fin justifica los MIEDOS my friend.

Chale_Tanga · TOP Guru

Here are a few interesting quotes for you to ponder at....

it is ridiculous for people who have already decided that it is moral to kill babies in the womb to show some squeamishness about destroying human embryos in a petri dish. Hell, man, once you decide to become a child-killer, their ages no longer matter. Or the numbers. Damnation of your soul is completed with the first one." Charley Reese

"...research involving human pluripotent stem cells...promises new treatments and possible cures for many debilitating diseases and injuries, including Parkinson's disease, diabetes, heart disease, multiple sclerosis, burns and spinal cord injuries. The NIH believes the potential medical benefits of human pluripotent stem cell technology are compelling and worthy of pursuit in accordance with appropriate ethical standards." National Institutes of Health news release

Cal Thomas' article against stem cell research....is not particularly useful, because it does not deal with his fundamental belief that human personhood begins at conception. Similarly, articles by medical groups that promote stem cell research are not helpful, because they do not touch on their fundamental belief that embryos are not human persons. If there is to be any hope of resolving these issues, we must debate when human personhood begins. If we can reach a near consensus on this, then abortion, in-vitro fertilization, stem cell research and other debates will neatly resolve themselves." Comment letter to the Jewish World Review

mara · Senior Member

Bainaman wrote:

Soo......

All of you are saying that the end justifies the means?????

What's your position on it Baina?

Bainaman · Foro Master

Soo......

All of you are saying that the end justifies the means?????

GENIE · Foro Master

Bainaman wrote:

Thanks to Chilenita's thought provoking threads today......I thought I'd contribute one as well. What are your thoughts on STEM CELL RESEARCH?!?!?!?? Do you agree?? Disagree? Why? Why Not??? Is it moral? Are we trying to play God???

do u mind giving a breifing on whats it about whats going on with it?? how will it benefit me???

Did u also know that for a 1500 they save ur umbilicol cord at hosptials now just incase u need bonemarrow or something from it! How do u feel about that

McOSIRIS · Comandante

I totally support it....since the human being has the mental capability to improve it's own life why not use it for a good cause???

Daeveed · Foro Master

I fully support stem cell research in all its different types.

Chilenita · Comandante

I STRONGLY SUPPORT STEM CELL RESEARCH!!!!

DID YOU KNOW THAT BUSH CUT FUNDING FOR STEM CELL RESEARCH!!!

Who wants to lynch him with me????? Anyone???? ANYONE?????

Pancho Cachondo · Guru

Bainaman wrote:

Thanks to Chilenita's thought provoking threads today......I thought I'd contribute one as well.
What are your thoughts on STEM CELL RESEARCH?!?!?!??
Do you agree?? Disagree?
Why? Why Not???
Is it moral? Are we trying to play God???

When I saw SUPERMAN Paraplegic I tought What kind of world is this ? the best Superhero is Paraplegic ! and he could be saved with Stem Cells ...

Bainaman · Foro Master

Thanks to Chilenita's thought provoking threads today......I thought I'd contribute one as well.

What are your thoughts on STEM CELL RESEARCH?!?!?!??

Do you agree?? Disagree?

Why? Why Not???

Is it moral? Are we trying to play God???