Daeveed wrote:

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Same here, snobs don't work with me, even if they have valid points. I think he's old too.

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You kill me man...

I think some of his points are valid.....but just not the way he presents them.

 

Here's another way you could target this audience....

 

Lock yourself up in a room with no windows and start writing a book called "Latinos: A History of Underachievement."

When you're finished, take it to an editor and a publisher and get it published (if you can). Then, you can come here and write a little post about your book and leave. We'll see if we read it or not.

That way everyone is happier.

 

neruda wrote:

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By design or by my natural condescending self- I here to light a fire under some butts.
 
 
 

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If you're naturaly condescending......

then you're a natural A$$HOLE!

There is no need to talk down to people to make a point.








I guess I just contradicted myself

Don't be so petty, Mcosiris.

Sometimes I make the occassional typo that throws my point off.

McOSIRIS wrote:

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Neruda...you don't have to "edit" every post you make....  

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Mcosiris.. Neruda most work for city tv for

 

 him to know it was latino gang..

 

Neruda who kill JFK

 

 

Let me guess a latino right

McOSIRIS wrote:

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same here

Yesi wrote:

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Daeveed wrote: Neruda man, you are the biggest Chilean snob I've seen in Toronto. It's pretty sad to see you rambling about latinos and education without even knowing who you're talking to. Take the time to know who you're talking to first and then you can complain about the circles you move in, which apparently are not the best. Wow this must be the first, but I totally agree with Daeveed on this one.  Most of the people that come to this foro are working professionals. Yesi

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If I didn't think this place was full of smart/educated latinos I wouldn't bother writing anything, now would I? I've monitored a number of the threads over the last few months and clearly there are signs of intelligent life out there. Do you think I would rant to a bunch of deaf people?

You're exactly the audience I'm targeting. I'm here to provoke.

Last night exactly while I was writing on this site a latino gang shot up a few of our Portuguese brothers near where I live. Without giving away my profession, I've seen it too many times- The latino kid who wants to be the gang banger. Why doesn't he/she want to become an engineer, social worker, dentist, doctor, teacher, etc? Perhaps in his/her family there isn't any one. That goal seems impossible.

Clearly some of you need a lesson in statistics and logic:

1. the plural of anecdote is not data. Just because it happen to you or a friend of yours doesn't make it a trend or a fact. Because some of us were able to succeed academically doesn't dismiss the fact that latinos in here are underachieving.

2. You are inferring things that have nothing to do with the information I have presented. Assumptions about my background or experience in chile, or my success rate with chilenas is neither here nor there (ad hominem) . By the way chilenita I could tell you stories that would make your body sing.

 

 

-- Edited by neruda at 17:18, 2005-11-15

Firstly I would like to say hello to everybody considering that I am new to this forum.  I would just like to tell "neruda" that my sister is also married to a "black Jamaican" and she is perfectly fine. 

i think neruda is comparing apples to oranges.

he's probably used to living in chile and coming from a white middle / upper class background. when you're white and south american in south america you tend to associate with the same type of people, and a larger proportion of these people happen to be university educated. it might seem to be the norm to him but he's just a part of the more priviledged minority over there.

fast forward to canada: the middle class is a lot more pronounced not everyone out there is university educated, and the latin community is no exception. it has nothing to do with latin people per se. when you go to momentos and see what you consider to be ghetto ass people consider the fact that you can go to a white club and feel exactly the same way

we live in a country with all sorts of different people, get used to it.

Chilenita wrote:

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Neruda, I personally know many gourges, slim and educated Chilenas right here in Toronto!!  If I know many of them then they must not be to difficult to find. Could it be that they are not attracted to you?

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I could read your posts all day......You kill me Chilenita!!!

It's such a valid point.........but I can just picture Chilenita posting this with a BIG grin on her face

 

 

Daeveed wrote:

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Neruda man, you are the biggest Chilean snob I've seen in Toronto. It's pretty sad to see you rambling about latinos and education without even knowing who you're talking to. Take the time to know who you're talking to first and then you can complain about the circles you move in, which apparently are not the best.

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I AGREE WITH DAVEED

@ Neruda - this comment you said................."Furthermore, it's no secret that the Latino population is underachieving in school. It's not because we are more stupid or lazy- the latino population does extremely well in academics in Spain and Latin America. The Latinos here don't seem to see the importance of further education or lack the opportunities(money). Most of us are first or second generation immigrants- often we don't have the financial reserves (ie. rich family members) to help with post secondary education."

 

I don't think you realize that a lot of people, besides latinos are underachieving in school!! It's in every race!!!! I did well in school and so did my brother and my cousins. A lot of us have gone to College and have great careers!!! So do a lot of my friends!!! I can say i'm proud of who i am and what i have acheived in life!!! Especially in my career choice!! I work in the legal field and i LOVE it!! At the same time i'm presently taking night school to further my career!! And that's not the end of it, cause when i'm done i will be taking another step to move up!! I work hard for what i want!!! My best friend who is a foro member also is doing good, she's a few months away from becoming a teacher!!! And she has also worked hard and done everything on her own to achieve what she has so far!!So i suggest that you think twice before you speak, cause not every latino are underachievers!!!

Daeveed wrote:

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Neruda man, you are the biggest Chilean snob I've seen in Toronto. It's pretty sad to see you rambling about latinos and education without even knowing who you're talking to. Take the time to know who you're talking to first and then you can complain about the circles you move in, which apparently are not the best.

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Wow this must be the first, but I totally agree with Daeveed on this one.  Most of the people that come to this foro are working professionals.

Yesi

 

Ahh, you're right, what's the point

-- Edited by Dogo at 00:33, 2005-11-15

Tell me about it. Now, should you hit me or should I hit you first?

Not very original of renard- the same idea can be found in buddhist philosophy.

 

 

Quote:

"The same happens in comparing the educational system which in Canada goes from "the cradle to the grave." This difference is most clear in regard to adult education, which the Hispanics do not know how to use in their favor.

There are not too many professionals, technicians and specialized workers. Many of those who were in these categories in their countries were obliged by the labour market to change to other simpler and less competitive occupations. There are also many in the unemployed ranks. Nevertheless, in the last dozen years a trend towards more stabilized occupations has developed. Also a slow process of social stratification within the Hispanic community has been with a business and professional stratum, followed by a less stable and larger stratum of non-specialized and menial occupations, including the unemployed. "

http://www.direct.ca/news/cc/hispani1.shtml

I've seen that report  Mcosiris. Speaks very generally of the situation. And of course you must consider both the audience and the speaker.

I live here in toronto.

You are digressing with that last post, Neruda.

Congrats on the little debate; always a fan of debates. I respect your opinion as I do those of any other forum member. I don't think anyone can debate the general tendencies and stereotypes throught the expatriated Latin communities that you mentioned; that is the reality whether we like it or not. However,  I don't see how insulting and criticizing other forum members is going to help. It won't help here and it won't help the Latin community either. In fact, I find it very sad that successful Latinos feel the need to put others down; as if that would add to their success.

Jules Renard once said:" "When the defects of others are perceived with so much clarity, it is because one possesses them oneself".

 

Some disturbing trends as requested (compare these stats with a national stat from Spain or latin america): 

"The educational attainment of Latinos is significantly lower than that of other ethnic groups in both the United States and California. In 1995, for example, 30% of all Latinos in the U.S. age 16-24 had not finished high school, compared to 9% for non-Hispanic whites and 12% for African Americans. Latinos are also less likely to attend college even if they do finish high school."

http://www.ucop.edu/cprc/pipeline.html

 

"Obesity is 1.5 times more common in Mexican American women (reaching 52%) than in the general, female population"

http://www.4woman.gov/faq/latina.htm#2

http://www3.baylor.edu/~Charles_Kemp/hispanic_health.htm

and countless others.

 

 

 

neruda wrote:

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I guess you're one of the ones that fell out of the tree, dogo. Furthermore, I can't believe the hypocrisy! How is posting pictures of slim beautiful Latinas, presumably on your "wish list", any better? You're indicating your bias in what you perceive to be attractive -just like anyone else. Except dogo (et al) you're just too stupid to see it. Me mentioning that I rather date slim/fit women rather than rubenesque (i.e. chubby for all those who are that the bottom of that tree) , and University (which I include college) educated  is me being honest.  That's what I find attractive. Perhaps if I drew you a picture (or posted a pic) you would understand. Furthermore, it's no secret that the Latino population is underachieving in school. It's not because we are more stupid or lazy- the latino population does extremely well in academics in Spain and Latin America. The Latinos here don't seem to see the importance of further education or lack the opportunities(money). Most of us are first or second generation immigrants- often we don't have the financial reserves (ie. rich family members) to help with post secondary education. Moreover what I've also notice is a lack of positive role models. Where are all the successful Latino lawyers, accountants, university professors? They are here,  but they are hiding in the "sea of anglais" or they've left once the "troubles" in their home countries are over. If more young people could see their success they would feel empowered to continue their studies. Instead what young people see is the perpetuation of racial stereotypes by the media -Latino gang bangers, latino ghettos, etc. Just look at some of pic postings of Latino events on this web site -you've got young latinos pretending to be (or actually are)  gang bangers with their hats, wife beater shirts, bling, etc. On tV they see tough latinos driving around in their pimped out cars picking up chicks and getting respect. To the unsophisticated eye, this is the formula for success. What else in life is there, they ask? To them that is success.  There has also been a lot of research showing that the latino population in North America suffers from greater obesity rates than others. Why is that? It's not the case in Spain or latin america. Studies show that Mexicans (in Mexico) are now getting larger because of the onslaught of the North american diet and lifestyle. We would do a lot better if we returned to the diet our grandparents ate. At least I got some discussion going on here. Or perhaps its better just to "navel gaze". Maybe I should just write about what I'm doing now (no matter how banal it is),  or even better put up pics of women I consider sexy and have the members vote on it.       

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       Neruda, ante todo Gracias por tu Private Message...!   creo (creo) que entiendo lo que quisiste hacer llegar..

No voy a "discutir" porque no es mi estilo, y además no me gusta, simplemente, lo que quise hacerte llegar, (solo es MI  idea, y no la de otro) que tanto los Americanos (latinos o no latinos), como los Europeos, Asiáticos, Africanos, y toda las raza humana, justamente ante todo, somo HUMANOS, asi sean obesos, morenos, rubios, delgados, o como Dios haya querido que seamos..

Si tienes un estilo de "mujer" o persona, es fantástico, pero no por eso hay que "despreciar" a los demás, sólo se feliz con tu elección..sin "criticar" la fisonomía del otro..  nadie tiene la certeza en lo que es bello y en lo que no, lo que a mi me puede parece bellisimo, quizá para ti no.. y no está ni bien, ni mal, sólo es nuestra forma de pensar...y eso, se merece el máximo de los respetos...

y con respecto a la educación, lo miro desde el mismo lugar, solo que acá es UNO quien tiene que superarse por ser mejor cada día, ya seas Universitario, terciario o el "titulo" que obtengas.. como dije en otra oportunidad..la Universidad muchas veces no "enseña" los valores humanos..

Yo no tengo que poner mi "titulo" para darte un abrazo cuando te sientas solo, ni tengo que demostrar mi profesión para darte una mano y levantarte si te veo caído, si lo hago, es sólo porque lo siento, porque sos igual a mi...y el día de mañana seguramente necesite de tu mano o tu abrazo..   

Gracias a Dios tuve la suerte de nacer sana y poder realizar mis "estudios académicos" sin inconvenientes, sin embargo, hoy, ya en mi profesión, los que me ENSEÑAN las perqueñas grandes cosas de la vida, son personas a las cuales, sus dificultades mentales, motrices y varias mas, le permitieron a penas acceder a su nombre o al tener a penas un vocabulario a veces inentendible...pero que con sólo eso pueden decirte: te quiero, te amo, te extrañé ayer, ¿estás bien hoy? ¿te puedo ayudar? Qué linda estás hoy!!..y la mayoria no son "bellos" fisicamente algunos casi deformes, (y no necesito fotos..) pero son BELLOS..!!! qué paradógico..no??

lo de postear qué estoy haciendo hoy..sii, es banal, pero es una manera de entretenernos y reirnos un poco, o al menos para eso lo tomo..pero ojo!!! si algun día alguien en ese lugar postea: "estoy mal.., necesito a alguien.." no dudes en que la banalidad muere en ese preciso momento..y ese thread deja de ser banal para ser el canal en que pueda acercarme a esa persona y al menos sacarle una sonrisa..o abrazarla "virtualmente"...

Neruda... creo que escribí demasiado...pero acá te dejo mi manos por si algún día las necesitas..

God Bless You!!!    Shei

Neruda, there are some good looking and educated latinas here in Toronto; it seems that you are not lucky enough to meet them. Perhaps when you see a latina you assume they are not educated and don't bother to find out. You also said you don't look latin american,well, that may be one of the reasons they don't feel attracted to you since they don't see the connection.

Good luck man.

I guess you're one of the ones that fell out of the tree, dogo.

Furthermore, I can't believe the hypocrisy! How is posting pictures of slim beautiful Latinas, presumably on your "wish list", any better? You're indicating your bias in what you perceive to be attractive -just like anyone else. Except dogo (et al) you're just too stupid to see it.

Me mentioning that I rather date slim/fit women rather than rubenesque (i.e. chubby for all those who are that the bottom of that tree) , and University (which I include college) educated  is me being honest.  That's what I find attractive. Perhaps if I drew you a picture (or posted a pic) you would understand.

Furthermore, it's no secret that the Latino population is underachieving in school. It's not because we are more stupid or lazy- the latino population does extremely well in academics in Spain and Latin America. The Latinos here don't seem to see the importance of further education or lack the opportunities(money). Most of us are first or second generation immigrants- often we don't have the financial reserves (ie. rich family members) to help with post secondary education.

Moreover what I've also notice is a lack of positive role models. Where are all the successful Latino lawyers, accountants, university professors? They are here,  but they are hiding in the "sea of anglais" or they've left once the "troubles" in their home countries are over. If more young people could see their success they would feel empowered to continue their studies. Instead what young people see is the perpetuation of racial stereotypes by the media -Latino gang bangers, latino ghettos, etc. Just look at some of pic postings of Latino events on this web site -you've got young latinos pretending to be (or actually are)  gang bangers with their hats, wife beater shirts, bling, etc. On tV they see tough latinos driving around in their pimped out cars picking up chicks and getting respect. To the unsophisticated eye, this is the formula for success. What else in life is there, they ask? To them that is success. 

There has also been a lot of research showing that the latino population in North America suffers from greater obesity rates than others. Why is that? It's not the case in Spain or latin america. Studies show that Mexicans (in Mexico) are now getting larger because of the onslaught of the North american diet and lifestyle. We would do a lot better if we returned to the diet our grandparents ate.

At least I got some discussion going on here. Or perhaps its better just to "navel gaze". Maybe I should just write about what I'm doing now (no matter how banal it is),  or even better put up pics of women I consider sexy and have the members vote on it.