quote: Originally posted by: TV Buff " Well, like you said, everyone's entitled to their opinion. I'm 50/50 on this one. On the one hand, I think it says a lot about Uruguay that they elected a left-wing president through ballots. On the other hand, when was the last time a left-wing government was allowed to fully function without any intervention from the United States? By the nature of the core principles of a leftist governement, it functions in complete contradition of a capitalist state, and therefore, and especially in a global political economy, it'll be an obstacle to the way capitalist countries function. I don't think that'll ever happen. It didn't happen in Chile, it didn't happen in Nicaragua and it's certainly has been a struggle happening in Cuba, but Cuba is a different case, I would argue. In any case, I think the best way to do things is the Canadian way. This is certainly a welfare state, where in theory a capitalist model is in place, although there a lot of let's say communist and socialist currents and policies in place in our government. I think we get the best of both worlds, but it's proving to be costly to sustain. My way of thinking is that a left-wing government is impossible to sustain in this day and age: one, because nobody will let it happen (read the U.S.) and two because by principle there's just no way that human nature will let everything be for everybody. We're way too selfish and self-serving. But if the Uruguayan government finds a way to accomodate its policies without compromising their politics, that'll be quite a change. If the U.S. allows it."
Right! So, you agree with me.
A leftist government won't (does not) work in our reality. To say that it fails because we are human is, excuse me, silly to begin with...Hello! of course we are human!!!.
There is an old cuento that goes st like this...the mice gathered (3rd world?) to discuss what to do 'cause the cat (US?) was eating them one by one. A young mouse had the "clever" idea of fitting a bell on the cat's neck, that way when the cat approached, the bell would alert the mice. What a wonderful idea! Everyone cheered in approval (Chilenita would have been one of them ) and old mouse (that would be me, I guess) simply said, "really? and who is going to fit the bell on the cat's neck?". Oops! Yeah but: it is not fair, who say the cat (big) is supposed to eat the mice (small)?, why? not fair! Well my dear, that is nature. It is also in human nature for the rich to take advantage of the poor. That is what the left wing means to me. It does not work, I would agree that there is a lot of passion specially when you are young (there are of course some old and frustrated communists out there), a world of equality, an utopia, is very appealing.... indeed...
quote: Originally posted by: carlos_vive "You think is great? Well, you are definitely entitled to your opinion. Since when a left wing government has been good for el pueblo? Show me one example and then we can discuss it. On the other hand, a left wing government has proven to be a disaster for every single country that tried it. I feel sorry for the Uruguayos, I hope this leftist government is not allowed to enforce all the leftist principles otherwise they will be so sorry...look at China, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua..."
Well, like you said, everyone's entitled to their opinion. I'm 50/50 on this one. On the one hand, I think it says a lot about Uruguay that they elected a left-wing president through ballots. On the other hand, when was the last time a left-wing government was allowed to fully function without any intervention from the United States? By the nature of the core principles of a leftist governement, it functions in complete contradition of a capitalist state, and therefore, and especially in a global political economy, it'll be an obstacle to the way capitalist countries function. I don't think that'll ever happen. It didn't happen in Chile, it didn't happen in Nicaragua and it's certainly has been a struggle happening in Cuba, but Cuba is a different case, I would argue.
In any case, I think the best way to do things is the Canadian way. This is certainly a welfare state, where in theory a capitalist model is in place, although there a lot of let's say communist and socialist currents and policies in place in our government. I think we get the best of both worlds, but it's proving to be costly to sustain. My way of thinking is that a left-wing government is impossible to sustain in this day and age: one, because nobody will let it happen (read the U.S.) and two because by principle there's just no way that human nature will let everything be for everybody. We're way too selfish and self-serving. But if the Uruguayan government finds a way to accomodate its policies without compromising their politics, that'll be quite a change. If the U.S. allows it.
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Dios nos conceda SERENIDAD para aceptar las cosas que no podemos cambiar, VALOR para cambiar las que podemos, y SABIDURIA para conocer la diferencia.
You think is great? Well, you are definitely entitled to your opinion. Since when a left wing government has been good for el pueblo? Show me one example and then we can discuss it. On the other hand, a left wing government has proven to be a disaster for every single country that tried it. I feel sorry for the Uruguayos, I hope this leftist government is not allowed to enforce all the leftist principles otherwise they will be so sorry...look at China, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua...
quote: Originally posted by: MC CRAZY CARLITO "Todo govierno es malo. Los unicos intereses son los propios del poder."
I have to disagree with you on this on Carlito. I think that in most cases in Latin American YES there are terrible goverments but this is a man that is worried about el pueblo
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CHI CHI CHI LE LE LE VIVA CHILE!!!!
Proud memeber and supporter of Delta Gamma B i t c h - orama Copyright 2008 All Rights Reserved
For all Latin America is a very good thing this Happened Why because it shows DEMOCRACY......
Muestra que Latino America esta progresando en el Nivel de Democracia Muestra que los votos estan siendo RESPETADOS, es decir la voz del pueblo esta siendo escuchada y respetada.
quote: Originally posted by: God " Indeed it's great But the concern here is how the right wingers are going to cooperate IF they DO it.... Mr Tabarez has a HUGE challenge due the 2002 crisis Uruguay still recovering from it that crisis left 30% of the population in poverty.... I think that is his biggest challenge to fight poverty Another challenge he has is maintaining economic stability and at the same time meeting the expectations for social change in Uruguay.... Another porblem is problem is the country's debt very heavy, he has not that much room to manoeuvre..... "
Right on all counts GOD....
I know right wing organizations and even the United States will do everything in their power to make him fail but let's hope he is a great leader that will come through. At least we know he has nothing but el pueblo's best interest at heart......I wish him the best and hope he can get through all the problems he will face.
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CHI CHI CHI LE LE LE VIVA CHILE!!!!
Proud memeber and supporter of Delta Gamma B i t c h - orama Copyright 2008 All Rights Reserved
quote: Originally posted by: Chilenita "New left wing president....opinions????? I think it's GREAT!"
Indeed it's great But the concern here is how the right wingers are going to cooperate IF they DO it....
Mr Tabarez has a HUGE challenge due the 2002 crisis Uruguay still recovering from it that crisis left 30% of the population in poverty.... I think that is his biggest challenge to fight poverty
Another challenge he has is maintaining economic stability and at the same time meeting the expectations for social change in Uruguay....
Another porblem is problem is the country's debt very heavy, he has not that much room to manoeuvre.....
) and old mouse (that would be me, I guess) simply said, "really? and who is going to fit the bell on the cat's neck?". Oops! Yeah but: it is not fair, who say the cat (big) is supposed to eat the mice (small)?, why? not fair! Well my dear, that is nature. It is also in human nature for the rich to take advantage of the poor. That is what the left wing means to me. It does not work, I would agree that there is a lot of passion specially when you are young (there are of course some old and frustrated communists out there), a world of equality, an utopia, is very appealing.... indeed...
