Gay Marriage

Date: Jul 1 1:07 PM, 2005

RE: Gay Marriage

Dogo · Comandante

THE WAY I SEE IT IS... THAT MORALITY ONLY KICKS IN WHEN SOMEONE THAT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO GET HURT, DOES GET HURT, KNOWINGLY OR UNKNOWINGLY (SO CHEATING AIN'T COOL EITHER... IN CASE YOU WERE LOOKING FOR A LOOP HOLE)

IF IT'S NOT HURTING ANYONE ELSE THEN.. GO NUTS (NO PUN INTENDED )

Sweetness · Guru

I agree with princessa. I was brought up with the knowledge that being gay is wrong. I think that it's wrong, and I will continue to think that it is wrong for the rest of my life. I don't hate gays I just think it's wrong. God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

God · TOP Guru

babes wrote:

Hold on, hold on.............homosexuality is not something you are born with, that theory is only a suggestion through data that scientists can only propose. Its not proven that certain individuals are born gay. Its socially constructed. Certain factors present in the environment the individual is exposed to, plays a huge part in homosexuality. homosexuality is inevitable; its unpredictable, in my opinion, I believe that it just happens. Many of us have joked that when a man or women turns to the same sex, that its only because they are tired of the opposite sex. Now, Que Chula Linda, I don't exactly disagree with you. There are some individuals who were 'born' with complicated genes, whereas the estrogen hormone levels (highly present in women) are somehow chemically imbalanced with the male's testosterone levels, causing the imbalance. We see this highly present in transexuals (individuals who were born either man or woman but feel the components of the opposite sex, example: Sally was born woman, but feels that she was born to be a man). I work in a place where there are alot of gays and they are the most friendliest and funny people you can ever interact with. Do I personally support gay-marriage? i don't wish to call it marriage, but more as a unison. I still am a firm believer in marriage= man & woman inclusively. Its so political.......as a sociology major, these were the types of debates we would have gotten into. At the end, it was always about liberation and the excercise of rights. Let people be, if thats how they choose to live, it should be left alone. let people live their own lives you know? Thanks for listening guys Those were just my thoughts....

I find smart women extremely Attractive .....you've made a very good point at least you didn't jump wiht an "rhetorical diatribe" .......

don_plyero · Guru

wow so much hate towards the gays i dont agree with gay marrage but just let them be but just dont come and start anythin wit me jajaja

but in my opinion god made private parts for a man and a women for a reason

thats why theres children-and all that going on

babes · Guru

Hold on, hold on.............homosexuality is not something you are born with, that theory is only a suggestion through data that scientists can only propose. Its not proven that certain individuals are born gay. Its socially constructed. Certain factors present in the environment the individual is exposed to, plays a huge part in homosexuality. homosexuality is inevitable; its unpredictable, in my opinion, I believe that it just happens. Many of us have joked that when a man or women turns to the same sex, that its only because they are tired of the opposite sex. Now, Que Chula Linda, I don't exactly disagree with you. There are some individuals who were 'born' with complicated genes, whereas the estrogen hormone levels (highly present in women) are somehow chemically imbalanced with the male's testosterone levels, causing the imbalance. We see this highly present in transexuals (individuals who were born either man or woman but feel the components of the opposite sex, example: Sally was born woman, but feels that she was born to be a man). I work in a place where there are alot of gays and they are the most friendliest and funny people you can ever interact with. Do I personally support gay-marriage? i don't wish to call it marriage, but more as a unison. I still am a firm believer in marriage= man & woman inclusively. Its so political.......as a sociology major, these were the types of debates we would have gotten into. At the end, it was always about liberation and the excercise of rights. Let people be, if thats how they choose to live, it should be left alone. let people live their own lives you know? Thanks for listening guys

Those were just my thoughts....

QUE chula LINDA · Guru

I can’t ever put myself in their shoes. BUT they were born homosexual and like to be in a relationship with same sex. They also need someone to love, and need to be loved. No matter how gross it is (for me anyway) to see two men kissing, I think they deserve to be allowed to get married. So be it.

I only hate GAY PARADE. It always goes to the extreme.

Date: Jun 29 11:25 AM, 2005

Mientras pagan sus taxes que se casen siesque quieren en civil y que hagan lo que quieran en sus hogares o communidad, pero mas alla de eso como casarse de religioso o adoptar hijos se dia el colmo esto se convertiria en un sociedad de enfermos. Ahora como Madre y muchos jovenes que ahoran ya son padres de famlia que conosco ya no piensan como antes ahora queremos una sociedad limpia para nuestros hijos que lastimosamente cada vez se pone peor. Lo que nos queda es enseñarlos y educarlos y que aprendan a respertar todas las differencias de la gente pero no significa que tienen que acceptarlo.

PRINCESSA · TOP Guru

God wrote:

PRINCESSA wrote: God wrote: PRINCESSA wrote: God wrote: So it's Approved ...what do you think ? It's approved here in Canada "Gay Marriage"???. What i think I think it's disgusting & this world is getting worst & worst by minute. Why what's wrong with that ? What exactly you mean with the World is getting worse ? I think we've been through this topic already, so like before I don't agree that they should be allowed to get married. I don't care who's gay & they can do whatever they want with their lives, but getting married & if it's allowed through the Catholic Church then I think it's gone WAY to far. Why is it worst....well today we let gay people get married, so tomm. we will allow other stupid things to be approve by society & then what's this world going to turn into. I think the line should be drawn at a certain point & by thing like this getting aproved then everything else illegal should also be accepted. It's getting rediculous!!!!!! Now I remember who are you...... I was never raised to think that being gay was "wrong, dirty or gross". I had childhood friends who were taught that way, but I knew their parents, so I didn't blame them. Their parents were ____________________

LOL....well whatever you were trying to call their (right??) parents, I can tell you that their is Tons of parents like that.

God · TOP Guru

PRINCESSA wrote:

God wrote:
PRINCESSA wrote: God wrote: So it's Approved ...what do you think ? It's approved here in Canada "Gay Marriage"???. What i think I think it's disgusting & this world is getting worst & worst by minute. Why what's wrong with that ? What exactly you mean with the World is getting worse ?

I think we've been through this topic already, so like before I don't agree that they should be allowed to get married.
I don't care who's gay & they can do whatever they want with their lives, but getting married & if it's allowed through the Catholic Church then I think it's gone WAY to far.
Why is it worst....well today we let gay people get married, so tomm. we will allow other stupid things to be approve by society & then what's this world going to turn into. I think the line should be drawn at a certain point & by thing like this getting aproved then everything else illegal should also be accepted. It's getting rediculous!!!!!!

Now I remember who are you......

I was never raised to think that being gay was "wrong, dirty or gross". I had childhood friends who were taught that way, but I knew their parents, so I didn't blame them. Their parents were ____________________

PRINCESSA · TOP Guru

God wrote:

PRINCESSA wrote: God wrote: So it's Approved ...what do you think ? It's approved here in Canada "Gay Marriage"???. What i think I think it's disgusting & this world is getting worst & worst by minute. Why what's wrong with that ? What exactly you mean with the World is getting worse ?

I think we've been through this topic already, so like before I don't agree that they should be allowed to get married.

I don't care who's gay & they can do whatever they want with their lives, but getting married & if it's allowed through the Catholic Church then I think it's gone WAY to far.

Why is it worst....well today we let gay people get married, so tomm. we will allow other stupid things to be approve by society & then what's this world going to turn into. I think the line should be drawn at a certain point & by thing like this getting aproved then everything else illegal should also be accepted. It's getting rediculous!!!!!!

God · TOP Guru

PRINCESSA wrote:

God wrote:
So it's Approved ...what do you think ?

It's approved here in Canada "Gay Marriage"???.
What i think I think it's disgusting & this world is getting worst & worst by minute.

Why what's wrong with that ? What exactly you mean with the World is getting worst ?

-- Edited by God at 09:52, 2005-06-29

PRINCESSA · TOP Guru

God wrote:

So it's Approved ...what do you think ?

It's approved here in Canada "Gay Marriage"???.

What i think I think it's disgusting & this world is getting worst & worst by minute.

God · TOP Guru

So it's Approved ...what do you think ?

Those Old days when Chilenita used to post.......Baby come back !

-- Edited by God at 09:43, 2005-06-29

Jinx · TOP Guru

yo conozco gente gay educada ademas a mi ni me da ni frio ni calor sobre ese asunto porque para mi son seres humanos. Dejen que vivan sus vidas y que se casen.

Chilenita · Comandante

quote:
Originally posted by: don_plyero
"oye mi gente i got no disrespect for the guys out there but i got to say every1 should be treated the same without any hate but my beliefs wont change i dont agree on the change of the law on marriage its now used as 2 people getting married insted of un hombre y una mujer i got mad respect for them but what im worrried about is what about the next generations marriage wont be taken seriously watch next your gonna see a family member get married but what can i do just dont be hating "

Don't be hating??? Who???

Yesi · Guru

Wow, it took me like 30 minutes to read everyones comments on this topic. But I am definatelly with TV Buff, Chilenita and God on this one.

Honestly I am very open minded and I have always been so for me samesex marriage is not a big deal at all.

Just my opinion of course.

Yesi

confundida · Foro Master

HHHMM GAY MARRIAGES?????

HEY THERE ALLOWED TO DO ANYTHING THEY WANT TO DO AS LONG AS THEY DONT STEP ON MY TOES!!!

I USED TO PLAY SOCCER AND I HAD A COUPLE OF TEAM MATES THAT WERE LESBIAN HEY THEY ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN YOU AND I

AND ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS THOSE PPL CAN PARTY!!!!!

don_plyero · Guru

oye mi gente i got no disrespect for the guys out there but i got to say every1 should be treated the same without any hate but my beliefs wont change i dont agree on the change of the law on marriage its now used as 2 people getting married insted of un hombre y una mujer

i got mad respect for them but what im worrried about is what about the next generations marriage wont be taken seriously watch next your gonna see a family member get married but what can i do

just dont be hating

Chilenita · Comandante

@TV BUFF...I can always count on you for a great post. AVANT GARDE...I LOVE THAT - LOL! WOOO HOOO CANADA!

@GOD....nice to see a man with these point of views

@ anyone who has a serious problem accepting differences......careful you never know what YOUR children will turn out to be.....

TV Buff · TOP Guru

This topic can be argued until everyone's blue in the face. People's opinions, especially if they are taught to them since they were born, don't change overnight. Unless you have an Oprah moment, or you are open-minded enough to change your views on anything as you observe what's happening around you, nobody will ever change Princessa, God, Chilenita, Maria or Juan's point of view. You believe what you believe and you wish everyone thought exactly how you think, but human beings do not operate that way. What we need is tolerance. Live and let live.
So you don't believe in gay marriage. You want your nuclear family, man, woman and children, and that's your right. You live in a country where you're allowed to think that way. Or you do believe in gay marriage and you think gays and lesbians should be allowed to live their life any way they choose. That is your right too. Canada gives you that right. Or you are gay or lesbian and you want to be left alone and be allowed to adopt children. That's totally okay too. The problem comes when we try to IMPOSE our views on others, and that's not healthy. Why do you think there are so many wars, conflicts, etc.? Because we can never agree to disagree. But here we have freedom of expression, and we should be so grateful for that.
I'm happy we live in a country where our politicians are open-minded enough, and so avant garde, that they think things through and take people's rights into consideration, regardless of religion, race, sexual orientation, etc. We should be proud of the fact that debates are tolerated and even encouraged, and although not everyone will be happy with the end result, at least we voice our concerns and we're not opressed for our beliefs. Gay marriage is a reality and is here to stay. We will probably see marijuana being sold at variety stores pretty soon. Smoking will be banned everywhere where people breathe. You'll have to go to the moon to smoke. People will have a right to choose the sex of their child at conception. Women are slowly but surely moving from being second class citizens to having the right to empower themselves. You see people of different races in important positions in the economy, government, health, etc. where they can actually make a difference. So many things that you may or may not agree or disagree with are happening. We just have to be open-minded enough to let these things happen, and if we don't like it, get involved in changing them. Hopefully our children will learn from that and live in a more open-minded, tolerant society.

-- Edited by TV Buff at 12:21, 2005-02-04

DR J · Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: God
"

Princesa I don't think you''ve read my post properly....I do not care if the marriage is Lebian, Gay or Straight.....I don't even care if it's Marriage.....What Im arguing here..... From my point of View There is nothing and nobody that can tell you what you can cannot love......

"

what if somebody says he loves tens of women, should we allow him to have that many wives?
what if a brother and sister decide to get married? or mom and son? dad and daughter?? what if a pedophile wants to marry a kid? what if somebody decides they love their dog, cat enought to get married? should we allow it?

Once you punch a hole in the law, and make it legal for 2 people to get married just because they have the right to do it, you're opening the doors for so many other combinations, because if you don't allow them, you're discriminating.

God · TOP Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: PRINCESSA
"
I guess our point of views will never meet.
I do live with my parents & age is a # that makes no diffrences to how I perceive this topic.
What does age or living with my parents have to do with me agreeing to this???? "

Yeah they won't meet never.....but keeps the passion and debate alive.....

I never asked you to agree with me..... it's just that your opinions reveal a lot of rhe enviroment you live in....

Nothing worng with living with your parents....I wish to have mine close...

Chilenita · Comandante

quote:
Originally posted by: PRINCESSA
" Chilenita.........agian you mis-understood my post. I said call me cynical, bias, hypecrit, whatever you wish. I'm NOT saying I live my LIFE By the BIBLE or that I pick & choose what's convenint to me, but there's gotta be boundaries & limits to life & this topic is were I would NOT agree. As to Gay/Lesbians being allowed to marry by JUNE this year. Well there you go, good for them. I guess the problem was fixed. Weather they can legally do it or not here in Canada or in any other place in the World. Is STILL irrelavente & wrong to me. I will never agree or accept it as Normal. A couples future YA.....can be in thier hands, but it doens't necesarily mean you can Fix it & in times the couples cross the level of respect, that it's better to just go seperate ways. Plus this is a totally diffrent topic & it nothing to do with agreeing to gay/lesbian marriages."

@Princessa...okay before I start pleeeeaase keep in mind I am just debating..that is all and I do respect your rights to view this whichever way you think is correct.

Okay, I did understand your post properly and I guess there is no need to show the hypocrisy in the "religion" argument becaue you already know that....my bad.

You are also right about couples and marriage but you mentioned it so I responded but yeah, nothing to do with this at all.

I guess we can end this debate because as I said before Canadian Law is going to side with them and since the Federal Goverment seems to think that this is acceptable at the end of the day it really doesn't matter who is against it.

I realize my mentality is different I accept EVERYONE and I think that EVERYONE has a right to choose how they live thier life, who they have sex with and who they marry. My way of thinking is a direct result of how I was raised. Subjects like these are the reasons I always say as much as I LOVE Chile and trust me I LOVE it I could NEVER live there. Not an open enough society for me....too judgemental.....to hypocritical for my liking.

PRINCESSA · TOP Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: God
"Princessa ....I need to understand your point.... and I need to Guess you're in your 20's right .....mid 20's tops....... and you live with your parents ....right ?"

I guess our point of views will never meet.

I do live with my parents & age is a # that makes no diffrences to how I perceive this topic.

What does age or living with my parents have to do with me agreeing to this????

God · TOP Guru

Princessa ....I need to understand your point.... and I need to Guess you're in your 20's right .....mid 20's tops....... and you live with your parents ....right ?

God · TOP Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: PRINCESSA
"
You sense degree of Homofobia & immatureness....hahaha.....please imature is that you can't respect other peoples point of views.
So maturity has to do with agreeing with Gay/Lesbians marriages.......so i guess I'm Not mature. That's fine, I'm sure then there is a LOT of people out there VERY INMATURE.
"

Princesa I don't think you''ve read my post properly....I do not care if the marriage is Lebian, Gay or Straight.....I don't even care if it's Marriage.....What Im arguing here..... From my point of View There is nothing and nobody that can tell you what you can cannot love......

Why all this debate ???
It's because there is a lot of misunderstanding about what homosexuality really is, as well as the erroneous assumption that gay people enjoy the same civil rights protections as everyone else. There are also a lot of stereotypes about gay relationships, and even a great deal of misunderstanding of what marriage itself is all about and what its purpose is.

The values that such gay couples exhibit in their daily lives are often indistinguishable from those of their straight neighbors. They're loyal to their mates, are monogamous, devoted partners. They value and participate in family life, are committed to making their neighborhoods and communities safer and better places to live, and honor and abide by the law. Many make valuable contributions to their communities, serving on school boards, volunteering in community charities, and trying to be good citizens. In doing so, they take full advantage of their relationship to make not only their own lives better, but those of their neighbors as well.

Lost of ople continue to believe the propaganda from right-wing religious organizations (church, catholic & christians) that homosexuality is about nothing but sex, considering it to be merely a sexual perversion. The reality is that homosexuality is multidimensional, and is much more about love and affection than it is about sex. And this is what gay relationships are based on -- mutual attraction, love and affection. Sex, in a committed gay relationship, is merely a means of expressing that love, just the same as it is for heterosexuals. Being gay is much more profound than simply a sexual relationship; being gay is part of that person's core indentity, and goes right the very center of his being. It's like being black in a society of whites, or a blonde European in a nation of black-haired Asians. Yes, being gay is just that profound to the person who is. This is something that few heterosexuals can understand unless they are part of a minority themselves.

PRINCESSA · TOP Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: Chilenita
"@Princessa - Let me start by saying that I respect your opinion....I just don't fully understand it. So religion seems to be your MAIN argument here. Is it safe to say then that you live by the bible? The reason I asked you about pre marital sex is because if your reason is religion then I guess you are still a virgin...or...do you pick and choose which parts of the bible you follow. Does this also mean that you are against a womans right to choose wether or not to go through a pregnancy? There are SOOOOO many things in the bible and I can bet money on the fact that you don't follow them all. "But a believe that a family should be a normal "nuclear family" which should consist of mom, dad & children. It's those parents that will show each owns beliefs, principals & values. (Obviously they are all different)." Lets see here a "normal" family should consist of a mom and dad and children....WOW....this means that there are a lot of people out there that you would consider an ABNORMAL family. Remember 50% of all marriges end in divorce so there are MANY families that are not what you consider normal. I see ur point.......but being a single mom or dad is something out of that couples hands. Ummm actually the futre of any marriage is in the couples hands. In speaking to my gay friends every single one of them has said that they were gay since they can remember....it was NOT a choice that they made. I guess it can be an option if it was allowed, but it's not so it must be for a reason. - Acutally gays and lesbians have already married legally in Ontario and the Federal Goverment is going to pass the law allowing gays and lesbians to marry across Canada by JUNE OF THIS YEAR. I guess this whole subject will not matter then because they will be leagally able to marry across Canada soon enough...what can I say....good thing we don't have someone like GEORGE BUSH running this country ......Canada is wonderful and our acceptance makes us different...PROUD TO BE A CANDADIAN."

Chilenita.........agian you mis-understood my post. I said call me cynical, bias, hypecrit, whatever you wish. I'm NOT saying I live my LIFE By the BIBLE or that I pick & choose what's convenint to me, but there's gotta be boundaries & limits to life & this topic is were I would NOT agree.

As to Gay/Lesbians being allowed to marry by JUNE this year. Well there you go, good for them. I guess the problem was fixed. Weather they can legally do it or not here in Canada or in any other place in the World. Is STILL irrelavente & wrong to me. I will never agree or accept it as Normal.

A couples future YA.....can be in thier hands, but it doens't necesarily mean you can Fix it & in times the couples cross the level of respect, that it's better to just go seperate ways. Plus this is a totally diffrent topic & it nothing to do with agreeing to gay/lesbian marriages.

PRINCESSA · TOP Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: God
Also I can sense some degree of Homofobia and some degree of immatureness......not for the fact that a man like anal stimulation means is gay ...... Denying lesbians and gay men the right to marry denies them simple, basic dignity and has serious practical costs as well. Among the practical consequences unique to marriage are the rights to file joint tax returns, inherit from your partner if she or he doesn't have a valid will, obtain joint health, home and auto insurance policies.... Just my opinion -- Edited by God at 09:30, 2005-02-04"

You sense degree of Homofobia & immatureness....hahaha.....please imature is that you can't respect other peoples point of views.

So maturity has to do with agreeing with Gay/Lesbians marriages.......so i guess I'm Not mature. That's fine, I'm sure then there is a LOT of people out there VERY INMATURE.

God · TOP Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: Chilenita
"SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES OF WHAT? Sexual orientation? Is that a crime? You are right about discrimination it has always been there......people discriminate based on a lot of things...color of skin.....religion.....and now sexual orientation.....ALL DESCRIMINATIONN IS WRONG!"

There is nothing more sexier than a Smart Woman

-- Edited by God at 10:41, 2005-02-04

Chilenita · Comandante

quote:
Originally posted by: Anonymous
"I think Gay marriage is wrong. God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve"

As mentioned in another quote this is a debate.......here is another saying for you.......IF YOU HAVE NOTHING SMART TO SAY DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL.

If you have a valid point....now would be the time to make it.

Chilenita · Comandante

quote:
Originally posted by: DR J
" You can teach tolerance to your kids, but you have no control over someone else's kids. So, discrimination will always be there. Our kids (natural or adopted) shouldn't suffer the consequences of our actions. "

SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES OF WHAT? Sexual orientation? Is that a crime? You are right about discrimination it has always been there......people discriminate based on a lot of things...color of skin.....religion.....and now sexual orientation.....ALL DESCRIMINATIONN IS WRONG!

Chilenita · Comandante

@Princessa - Let me start by saying that I respect your opinion....I just don't fully understand it.

So religion seems to be your MAIN argument here. Is it safe to say then that you live by the bible? The reason I asked you about pre marital sex is because if your reason is religion then I guess you are still a virgin...or...do you pick and choose which parts of the bible you follow. Does this also mean that you are against a womans right to choose wether or not to go through a pregnancy? There are SOOOOO many things in the bible and I can bet money on the fact that you don't follow them all.

"But a believe that a family should be a normal "nuclear family" which should consist of mom, dad & children. It's those parents that will show each owns beliefs, principals & values. (Obviously they are all different)." Lets see here a "normal" family should consist of a mom and dad and children....WOW....this means that there are a lot of people out there that you would consider an ABNORMAL family. Remember 50% of all marriges end in divorce so there are MANY families that are not what you consider normal.

I see ur point.......but being a single mom or dad is something out of that couples hands. Ummm actually the futre of any marriage is in the couples hands. In speaking to my gay friends every single one of them has said that they were gay since they can remember....it was NOT a choice that they made.

I guess it can be an option if it was allowed, but it's not so it must be for a reason. - Acutally gays and lesbians have already married legally in Ontario and the Federal Goverment is going to pass the law allowing gays and lesbians to marry across Canada by JUNE OF THIS YEAR.

I guess this whole subject will not matter then because they will be leagally able to marry across Canada soon enough...what can I say....good thing we don't have someone like GEORGE BUSH running this country ......Canada is wonderful and our acceptance makes us different...PROUD TO BE A CANDADIAN.

God · TOP Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: DR J
"

You can teach tolerance to your kids, but you have no control over someone else's kids. So, discrimination will always be there. Our kids (natural or adopted) shouldn't suffer the consequences of our actions. "

That's the keyword........TOLERANCE........

DR J · Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: Chilenita
"
I guess this is why it's important to teach children tolerance at an early age. Gays and lesbians are not going anywhere in fact over the last ten years they have been more and more open. I know many straight parents that are f**ked up so as long as your a good parent your sexual orientation should not matter and if it does should we ban kinky swingers from having children??
@Princessa - "the world is all f**ked up already but that won't make me change my view on gay and lesbian marriage"....what does this mean?"

You can teach tolerance to your kids, but you have no control over someone else's kids. So, discrimination will always be there. Our kids (natural or adopted) shouldn't suffer the consequences of our actions.

God · TOP Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: Anonymous
"i agree with PRINCESSA, ok let say we all agree with this what next all rapiest should be allow, what they love to rape. or all child molestor should be allow, or all serial killers... i respect all gays and lesbians. pero como dicen por alli que values le vas a dar a tus hijos si Dios creo Adan y Eva, o Adan y Estevan... i guess is going to be hard for gays to be recognize are a married couple since we where all brought all diffirent and it not because we are latinos, its in all off us, white, black,chinese,arab,indian. european... Imaginesen que salio un articulo que hasta el presidente de USA Abraham Lincoln le gustaba por el deca y eso fue en los 1800, asi que gay siempre han habido y poco a poco han sido aceptado pero ya de aceptarlos como una pareja casada sino!!! well that just my opinion!!!"

Dude that was the cheapes shot (a very used one) We're talking about Gay Marriage not about rapist....and yes is not the first time I hear somebody trying to link the word rapist to Gay which is completely Wrong.....

What If I tell you that Catholic Priest are Homosexual or pedophiles.....does it make sense to you ?

And just to clarify there is a HUGE difference between pedophiles and molesters. Pedophilia, which is a psychological disorder, is a distinct sexual preference for pre-pubescent children. Child molesters, however, can have many different motivations for their crimes. And those motives, surprisingly, are often not of a sexual origin.

You don't need of Adan, Eva, Pancho,Maria, Allah, Buddah to educate children, you can provide them with values and teach them the TOLERANCE, no everybody walks on the same path and no for the fact you walk in a different one makes you bizzarre...

Also I can sense some degree of Homofobia and some degree of immatureness......not for the fact that a man like anal stimulation means is gay ......

Denying lesbians and gay men the right to marry denies them simple, basic dignity and has serious practical costs as well. Among the practical consequences unique to marriage are the rights to file joint tax returns, inherit from your partner if she or he doesn't have a valid will, obtain joint health, home and auto insurance policies....

Just my opinion

-- Edited by God at 09:30, 2005-02-04

God · TOP Guru

As recently as 40 years ago, interracial couples could not marry. That kind of ignorance and racism is a horrible blemish in worlds history. Today, we shudder at such injustice and can not imagine condoning such a law. Denying homosexuals the right to marry those they love signifies a harsh parallel to that unenlightened time of our past.....

Date: Feb 4 7:37 AM, 2005

i agree with PRINCESSA, ok let say we all agree with this what next all rapiest should be allow, what they love to rape. or all child molestor should be allow, or all serial killers... i respect all gays and lesbians. pero como dicen por alli que values le vas a dar a tus hijos si Dios creo Adan y Eva, o Adan y Estevan... i guess is going to be hard for gays to be recognize are a married couple since we where all brought all diffirent and it not because we are latinos, its in all off us, white, black,chinese,arab,indian. european... Imaginesen que salio un articulo que hasta el presidente de USA Abraham Lincoln le gustaba por el deca y eso fue en los 1800, asi que gay siempre han habido y poco a poco han sido aceptado pero ya de aceptarlos como una pareja casada sino!!! well that just my opinion!!!

Date: Feb 4 7:32 AM, 2005

i agree with PRINCESSA, ok let say we all agree with this what next all rapiest should be allow, what they love to rape. or all child molestor should be allow, or all serial killers... i respect all gays and lesbians. pero como dicen por alli que values le vas a dar a tus hijos si Dios creo Adan y Eva, o Adan y Estevan... i guess is going to be hard for gays to be recognize are a married couple since we where all brought all diffirent and it not because we are latinos, its in all off us, white, black,chinese,arab,indian. european...

PRINCESSA · TOP Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: God
"Sorry I was trying to answer and I fogot something.....It is true that perhaps homosexuals do not fall into the traditional definition of marriage, which includes a man and a woman joined together to form a conventional family. Single mothers and fathers do not necessarily fit the mold either, and yet the love for their children is no less. But to call them anything less than a family would be unjust. What is important in a marriage is love and trust. Marriage is the union of souls, and that cannot be regulated by some act of Congress or Some Fanatic Priest or a corrupt Minester. "

I see ur point.......but being a single mom or dad is something out of that couples hands. It's due to many factors & diffrences. But the main idea or concept that they child will have.....will still be of a "mom" & "dad".

The fact that we now see so many corrupt minesters, priest, etc. doens't change the overall concept of a religion. Unfortunatly we will always see things or people like those, but I still think that religion is important & how you bring the message to your loved ones.

-- Edited by PRINCESSA at 23:13, 2005-02-03

PRINCESSA · TOP Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: Chilenita
" Genie...I know she has a right and I actually stated that but this is a topic for healthy deate. Nobody is calling names or insulting anyone. I can say you are wrong about all latin american children being raised the same way. My parents NEVER accepted intolerance from us NEVER. We were taught to accept everyone regardless of race, religion or ANYTHING else. One of my mothers very best friends is gay and I knew him from the time I was born. Perhaps my parents were ahead of their time but I have other friends in my circle that are latin and were taught the same thing. No offence to ANYONE...this is a healty intellectual debate..that's all "

Chilenita I know this is not a fight & I also like debates & sharing opinons as long as we can respect one an others point of views. I'm just saying what I think & how I see it. It's my point of view & I'm aware people won't always or never agree with me, but that's ok, I can live with that.

As to my parents.....it wasn't about accepting tolerence from us. We were also taught respect & the whole nine yards......it's one thing to respect them, accept them how they are, but to marry & build a family.........to me it is more about religion beliefs & how each one was brought up.

This is two diffrent things, or at least that's how I see it.

Date: Feb 3 11:01 PM, 2005

I think Gay marriage is wrong. God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve

PRINCESSA · TOP Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: GENIE
"OK ok - Princessa has a right to her opinion on here and she was raised LIKE every other latin american child on here and tell me im wrong?!?!? I was raised the same by my father gays and lesbians were bad ppl they did not deserve to be here!!! trust me my whole family shares this opinion men mind u the women are different!! So u should have seen his face when i picked my god father for my confirmation hes very very gay!! but back to my point!! I dont think that its wrong for them to marry its like Dr J said its a piece of paper but did you know that that little piece of paper gets u many things. As for the part on children look i know two lesbians that have a son and that child is the happiest and hes 6 he knows he has two mommies and thats ok with him he says hes special cuz he has that extra mommy he can go to!!! and all i have to say is that you dont always need a momy and daddy i grew up with a single mom!! so i mean its the way we are educated!! "

Hey Genie.......I agree with you to "my right to my opinion" that's why I give it.

It is about ways you were raised & now that I'm an adult, I gotta say there is very few things that I can disagree with my parents way of thinking & this being one.

I'm not debating or underestimating people that have adopted in the past. I think they shouldn't becuase it's hard on the children & I don't think they should be put in an environment (family) like that. As it is they will face issues as to why they were left behind (for whatever reason) & for us to agree that a child can handle this topic is way beyond me.

PRINCESSA · TOP Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: Chilenita
@Princessa - "the world is all f**ked up already but that won't make me change my view on gay and lesbian marriage"....what does this mean?"

I meant that we already see enough bad things going on in this world & we have no control on them.

But something like this matter .......I think if we allowed it, where would we all be going to as a whole in society????

What ever happened to having a religion?!?!?!?

Why even have them (is everything should be fine)?!?!

PRINCESSA · TOP Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: Chilenita
" Okay, well you have already said that you are against it on the foro so what is the difference if you say why??? This foro is for great for this type of debate..think about it who the hell is Princessa...nobody know...it's your opion. If you have a VALID point you should make it. Family values or religion? If you are "okay" with gays and lesbians than why "shouldn't it be an option" for them to get married? What does someone sexual orientation have to do with how they would raise a child? This is what this is all about sexual orientation. If it is because of religion than I guess you would be against PRE MARITAL sex too? and a whole bunch of other stuff that the bible says. I am interested in your opion because I find that many times when people say this they don't really have any good reasons to back it up.....CURIOUS!"

Weather people knew or not who Princessa is.....it would make NO diffrence in how I think towards this matter. As i said it's my opnion & I'll voice it without a problem & how others will percive it is completly irrelavente to me. It won't make my opinion change.

The fact that I'm ok & respect them doesn't mean that I think it's right. Plus marriage to me is about joining to oposite genders to be a family & pre-create (if possble) & with that all that a family entitles.

Raising a child to me is more then just a topic of sexual orintation. I couldn't imagine how would you explain to a child & make them understand it's ok to have a "mom"..........& a "mom" or a "dad".....& a "dad", when most other kids have a mom & a dad. This is just one of the many things, issues & probably discrimination they will have to face........WHY??? because we let them adopt. I'm sorry I can't agree.

As to PRE MARITAL sex as you say.......well maybe I'm cynical or baies, but this WOULDN'T involve children. And when you make a choice to do it.....ur most likely to be older & make the choice on ur own.

PRINCESSA · TOP Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: God
" Tell me more about your principals ? Family Values.... a Gay family has different Values ? Shouldn't be an Option.......what it should be then ?"

I guess it can be an option if it was allowed, but it's not so it must be for a reason.

As to my principals & values....well I'm not going to get into details on them.

But a believe that a family should be a normal "nuclear family" which should consist of mom, dad & children. It's those parents that will show each owns beliefs, principals & values. (Obviously they are all different).

As to Gay family values....well I couldn't tell you & I really don't care to know thiers.

Date: Feb 3 5:02 PM, 2005

everyone has rights gay or not. You won't get a valid response because there isn't one.

Chilenita · Comandante

quote:
Originally posted by: GENIE
"OK ok - Princessa has a right to her opinion on here and she was raised LIKE every other latin american child on here and tell me im wrong?!?!? I was raised the same by my father gays and lesbians were bad ppl they did not deserve to be here!!! trust me my whole family shares this opinion men mind u the women are different!! So u should have seen his face when i picked my god father for my confirmation hes very very gay!! but back to my point!! I dont think that its wrong for them to marry its like Dr J said its a piece of paper but did you know that that little piece of paper gets u many things. As for the part on children look i know two lesbians that have a son and that child is the happiest and hes 6 he knows he has two mommies and thats ok with him he says hes special cuz he has that extra mommy he can go to!!! and all i have to say is that you dont always need a momy and daddy i grew up with a single mom!! so i mean its the way we are educated!! "

Genie...I know she has a right and I actually stated that but this is a topic for healthy deate. Nobody is calling names or insulting anyone.

I can say you are wrong about all latin american children being raised the same way. My parents NEVER accepted intolerance from us NEVER. We were taught to accept everyone regardless of race, religion or ANYTHING else. One of my mothers very best friends is gay and I knew him from the time I was born. Perhaps my parents were ahead of their time but I have other friends in my circle that are latin and were taught the same thing.

No offence to ANYONE...this is a healty intellectual debate..that's all

GENIE · Foro Master

OK ok - Princessa has a right to her opinion on here and she was raised LIKE every other latin american child on here and tell me im wrong?!?!? I was raised the same by my father gays and lesbians were bad ppl they did not deserve to be here!!! trust me my whole family shares this opinion men mind u the women are different!! So u should have seen his face when i picked my god father for my confirmation hes very very gay!! but back to my point!! I dont think that its wrong for them to marry its like Dr J said its a piece of paper but did you know that that little piece of paper gets u many things.

As for the part on children look i know two lesbians that have a son and that child is the happiest and hes 6 he knows he has two mommies and thats ok with him he says hes special cuz he has that extra mommy he can go to!!! and all i have to say is that you dont always need a momy and daddy i grew up with a single mom!! so i mean its the way we are educated!!

God · TOP Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: Chilenita
"That's a sexy mind you got going there "GOD"..."

Guess who is my Source of Inspiration.....

-- Edited by God at 16:30, 2005-02-03