FIFA U20 CHILE BRAWL - any eye witnesses here???.

Chilenita · Comandante

RE: FIFA U20 CHILE BRAWL - any eye witnesses here???.

X4v13r · Comandante

what is it that the chilenos want anyways? just asking.

~X

Motown Junkie · TOP Guru

Chilenita wrote:

Motown Junkie wrote:
Ridiculous.

-- Edited by Motown Junkie at 10:14, 2007-07-24
explain

I will not.

In fear that you will kill me.

Chilenita · Comandante

Motown Junkie wrote:
Ridiculous.

-- Edited by Motown Junkie at 10:14, 2007-07-24

explain

Chilenita · Comandante

GENIE wrote:

Meeting to support official Chilean complaint to the City of Toronto
Tagline:
Chilean municipal goverment official will be on hand to strategize with Chilean community in Toronto
Host:
Take Action Agaisnt Police Brutality Against Chilean U-20 Delegation in TO
Type:
Causes - Protest
Time and Place
Date:
Tuesday, July 24, 2007
Time:
6:00pm - 9:00pm
Location:
Toronto City Hall, Committee Room # 2 (segundo piso)
Street:
100 Queen Street West (esquina Queen y Bay St)
City/Town:
Toronto, ON

View Map
Contact Info
Phone:
416.588.5237

Ha I was just going to send this to Hugo and Carequea

Motown Junkie · TOP Guru

GENIE wrote:

Meeting to support official Chilean complaint to the City of Toronto
Tagline:
Chilean municipal goverment official will be on hand to strategize with Chilean community in Toronto
Host:
Take Action Agaisnt Police Brutality Against Chilean U-20 Delegation in TO
Type:
Causes - Protest
Time and Place
Date:
Tuesday, July 24, 2007
Time:
6:00pm - 9:00pm
Location:
Toronto City Hall, Committee Room # 2 (segundo piso)
Street:
100 Queen Street West (esquina Queen y Bay St)
City/Town:
Toronto, ON

View Map
Contact Info
Phone:
416.588.5237

Ridiculous.

-- Edited by Motown Junkie at 10:14, 2007-07-24

GENIE · Foro Master

	Meeting to support official Chilean complaint to the City of Toronto
Tagline:	Chilean municipal goverment official will be on hand to strategize with Chilean community in Toronto
Host:	Take Action Agaisnt Police Brutality Against Chilean U-20 Delegation in TO
Type:	Causes - Protest

Time and Place
Date:	Tuesday, July 24, 2007
Time:	6:00pm - 9:00pm
Location:	Toronto City Hall, Committee Room # 2 (segundo piso)
Street:	100 Queen Street West (esquina Queen y Bay St)
City/Town:	Toronto, ON
	View Map

Contact Info
Phone:	416.588.5237

Chilenita · Comandante

Dogo wrote:

well.. you should've been more specific
And what do you mean "who the F*** is he?" he's the security guy... regardless of his attitude, he does have some authority. If you try to go past him, you know hes going to do something. No se, digo

I was specific

If the leafs want to say hi to their fans do you think they are going to listen to some security guy saying no. He can't deny them the right to walk 20 friggin steps to say hi to fans. They signed autographs and took pics AT EVERY GAME!!!!!!!

Dogo · Comandante

well.. you should've been more specific

And what do you mean "who the F*** is he?" he's the security guy... regardless of his attitude, he does have some authority. If you try to go past him, you know hes going to do something. No se, digo

Chilenita · Comandante

Dogo wrote:

I heard on ondas hispanas, yesterday, the show with Rocio no se cuanto, and the other Argentinian guy that I forget his name, who were right there with media passes, that the whole thing starting with some private security guy that they referred to as just some "bouncer" who looked inexperienced and who was on some power trip, when one of the players came up to him to apparently tell him that he wanted to go up to the fans, etc.... something got lost in translation the sec guy freaked out on him, cops came in and the rest is history
Is that how it went down?

OMG that is what I have been saying!!!!! The stupid SCARED security guys were the problem!! The guys wanted to come say hi to us...thank us for so much support! God knows there were TONS of chileans supporting this team at EVERY game and they wanted to say thank you. A stupid security guy starts freaking out on two players telling them they could not come over to where we were. Players got angry and went to walk past him anyway cuz WHO THE F U C K is he to say no. That is when the whole thing just got out of hand. Police came in with pepper spray...players and staff who were still on the bus and now not being let off by police had to break a window to breath....taser....beating...etc...etc......

-- Edited by Chilenita at 09:54, 2007-07-24

Motown Junkie · TOP Guru

Dogo wrote:

I heard on ondas hispanas, yesterday, the show with Rocio no se cuanto, and the other Argentinian guy that I forget his name, who were right there with media passes, that the whole thing starting with some private security guy that they referred to as just some "bouncer" who looked inexperienced and who was on some power trip, when one of the players came up to him to apparently tell him that he wanted to go up to the fans, etc.... something got lost in translation the sec guy freaked out on him, cops came in and the rest is history
Is that how it went down?

I can totally see that as happening. Some of those toy cops need to relax!!!!!

X4v13r · Comandante

~X

Dogo · Comandante

I heard on ondas hispanas, yesterday, the show with Rocio no se cuanto, and the other Argentinian guy that I forget his name, who were right there with media passes, that the whole thing starting with some private security guy that they referred to as just some "bouncer" who looked inexperienced and who was on some power trip, when one of the players came up to him to apparently tell him that he wanted to go up to the fans, etc.... something got lost in translation the sec guy freaked out on him, cops came in and the rest is history
Is that how it went down?

Chilenita · Comandante

FANTITO wrote:

I believe the root of the problem was the lack of proper communication among police officers, security personnel, and the players. I think if police officers had spoken in spanish and warn the players the whole situation had been different.
If I was a player in un unknown country and I saw someone trying to handcuff me I 'd tried to figth back since in some countries they put you in jail first and then investigate.
Also, police officers should've been introduced to the culture of soccer and other communities.
NEvertheless, I believe both the players and police officers and security personnel over-reacted.
Police in other countries try different and milder methods first. Korean police are even pelted with molotov cocktails and yet keep calm.

The biggest part of the problem was the SCARED security staff that is not used to or was never introduced to the soccer scene. Horrible!!! One of the only cities hosting this event that tried to get fans to sit down and shut up. That is not what watching soccer is all about. Pffft I watched some soccer in Argentina and Chile this winter and trust me all fans were calm and peaceful here in Toronto.

-- Edited by Chilenita at 09:23, 2007-07-24

Chilenita · Comandante

El Duro wrote:

Hugo wrote:

@ Molson,

FYI, there are enough videos being reviewed right now, even the stadium had cameras that misteriously did not record what transpired that night. There are even some fans' videos available facebook! That is why the Chilean Soccer Association is pursuing this further, they wouldn't be doing it if they didn't have a case.

@ Chilenita,

No hay caso con alguna gente aqui, I'll take your advise and will start ignoring certain ppl.

WOW u must know someone that works in the Staduim to know that..

Actually Duro you hit the nail right on the head - yeah good for you!

I mentioned in a previous thread that the reason I got into the building for every game without any problems is because the company I work for manages the bulding and all it's staff with the exception of security which is a seperate company that MSLE hired for the fifa event. So the answer to your question would be yes. I know many people who were MUCH closer to the situation than I was unfortunatly the soccer season isn't over and they are more interested in keeping their jobs than coming forward. That is expected from a bunch of people who are not latinos and could care less about what happened.

Anyways I guess to all those who choose to side with the Pigs on this one..lets hope your day of discrimination doesn't come anytime soon. If so lets not hear you b!tch about it.

Motown Junkie · TOP Guru

FANTITO wrote:

I believe the root of the problem was the lack of proper communication among police officers, security personnel, and the players. I think if police officers had spoken in spanish and warn the players the whole situation had been different.
If I was a player in un unknown country and I saw someone trying to handcuff me I 'd tried to figth back since in some countries they put you in jail first and then investigate.
Also, police officers should've been introduced to the culture of soccer and other communities.
NEvertheless, I believe both the players and police officers and security personnel over-reacted.
Police in other countries try different and milder methods first. Korean police are even pelted with molotov cocktails and yet keep calm.

WELL SAID!!!!!!!!

FANTITO · Senior Member

I believe the root of the problem was the lack of proper communication among police officers, security personnel, and the players. I think if police officers had spoken in spanish and warn the players the whole situation had been different.
If I was a player in un unknown country and I saw someone trying to handcuff me I 'd tried to figth back since in some countries they put you in jail first and then investigate.
Also, police officers should've been introduced to the culture of soccer and other communities.
NEvertheless, I believe both the players and police officers and security personnel over-reacted.
Police in other countries try different and milder methods first. Korean police are even pelted with molotov cocktails and yet keep calm.
blankstare

El Duro · Foro Master

Hugo wrote:

@ Molson,

FYI, there are enough videos being reviewed right now, even the stadium had cameras that misteriously did not record what transpired that night. There are even some fans' videos available facebook! That is why the Chilean Soccer Association is pursuing this further, they wouldn't be doing it if they didn't have a case.

@ Chilenita,

No hay caso con alguna gente aqui, I'll take your advise and will start ignoring certain ppl.

WOW u must know someone that works in the Staduim to know that..

Hugo · Guru

@ Molson,

FYI, there are enough videos being reviewed right now, even the stadium had cameras that misteriously did not record what transpired that night. There are even some fans' videos available facebook! That is why the Chilean Soccer Association is pursuing this further, they wouldn't be doing it if they didn't have a case.

@ Chilenita,

No hay caso con alguna gente aqui, I'll take your advise and will start ignoring certain ppl.

Molson · Regular Plus

If you and a lot of chilenos claim they were right there, how came nobody took a GOOD PICTURE of the situation. if you saw it so clear with your naked eyes there should not be a problem to get a GOOD AND CLEAR PICTURE.

If there are not picture to post we should all wait for the investigation

Chilenita · Comandante

El Duro wrote:

Chilenita wrote:

Hugo wrote:

@ El Duro,

Sigue callando, sigue aguantando que te traten mal even though you were born here, I guess it is ultimately up to you. Quizas tenemos diferentes culturas, lo que si te puedo asegurar es que la mayoria de los chilenos aqui y en todo el mundo no aguantan este tipo de abusos, ni por parte de la policia, ni del gobierno, ni de nadie. Es parte de nuestra legacia.

And with regards to your College degree? Que tiene que ver eso aqui? I have a University degree + un postgrado, y que?! Este foro es para presentar tu opinion no importa quien seas ni de donde vengas.

Hugo don't bother it's not worth it. Lots of people on foro bitter with Chileans for some reason. Not worth the time or effort.

VIVA CHILE!

Oh and you are right standing up against injustice is part of our legacy!

@hugo

your were the first one to say about Education u said what kind of Education do u guys have when u wrote your first piece, and to beat the system u got to join the system.. this has nothing to do with FREEDOME OF RIGHTS.. this had to do with kids blowing off steam after a game, but what they did was wrong, just cause your playing on the national team it does not make u special or above the law.. u are repesenting YOUR COUNTRY, and how do u think some Chilenos feel about their national teams action? Do u think that they are happy with the situation.. I think not..some of my friend who are from chile and older people are not happy with what happen here, not only did it give Chilenos a bad name but Latino is general, this is not a race thing its as some of people have indicated

@chile

I got nothing against Chile trust me.. some of my good friends are chilenos, and chilenas, and when chile beat Ecuador in la copa america I was happy u know why cause Ecuador took them lightly and u guys had more guts to win then us..

again there is something you are NOT understanding I WAS THERE AND I KNOW WHAT I SAW! It was NOT a bunch of 17 and 18 yr olds beating up on cops. You post makes no sense to me because like I said I was there I am not just forming and opinion based on what OTHERS say.

El Duro · Foro Master

Chilenita wrote:

Hugo wrote:

@ El Duro,

Sigue callando, sigue aguantando que te traten mal even though you were born here, I guess it is ultimately up to you. Quizas tenemos diferentes culturas, lo que si te puedo asegurar es que la mayoria de los chilenos aqui y en todo el mundo no aguantan este tipo de abusos, ni por parte de la policia, ni del gobierno, ni de nadie. Es parte de nuestra legacia.

And with regards to your College degree? Que tiene que ver eso aqui? I have a University degree + un postgrado, y que?! Este foro es para presentar tu opinion no importa quien seas ni de donde vengas.

Hugo don't bother it's not worth it. Lots of people on foro bitter with Chileans for some reason. Not worth the time or effort.

VIVA CHILE!

Oh and you are right standing up against injustice is part of our legacy!

@hugo

your were the first one to say about Education u said what kind of Education do u guys have when u wrote your first piece, and to beat the system u got to join the system.. this has nothing to do with FREEDOME OF RIGHTS.. this had to do with kids blowing off steam after a game, but what they did was wrong, just cause your playing on the national team it does not make u special or above the law.. u are repesenting YOUR COUNTRY, and how do u think some Chilenos feel about their national teams action? Do u think that they are happy with the situation.. I think not..some of my friend who are from chile and older people are not happy with what happen here, not only did it give Chilenos a bad name but Latino is general, this is not a race thing its as some of people have indicated

@chile

I got nothing against Chile trust me.. some of my good friends are chilenos, and chilenas, and when chile beat Ecuador in la copa america I was happy u know why cause Ecuador took them lightly and u guys had more guts to win then us..

Chilenita · Comandante

confundida wrote:

@chile

yep it was!!!! the best is when u ran to condorito aid!!!

Of course Sole as a Chilena I could not stand by and do nothing while Condorito just stood there bleeding. He is my hero aww aww and the ONLY mascot in the entire tournament! VIVA CONDORITO!!!!

Chilenita · Comandante

Hugo wrote:

@ El Duro,

Sigue callando, sigue aguantando que te traten mal even though you were born here, I guess it is ultimately up to you. Quizas tenemos diferentes culturas, lo que si te puedo asegurar es que la mayoria de los chilenos aqui y en todo el mundo no aguantan este tipo de abusos, ni por parte de la policia, ni del gobierno, ni de nadie. Es parte de nuestra legacia.

And with regards to your College degree? Que tiene que ver eso aqui? I have a University degree + un postgrado, y que?! Este foro es para presentar tu opinion no importa quien seas ni de donde vengas.

Hugo don't bother it's not worth it. Lots of people on foro bitter with Chileans for some reason. Not worth the time or effort.

VIVA CHILE!

Oh and you are right standing up against injustice is part of our legacy!

confundida · Foro Master

@chile

yep it was!!!! the best is when u ran to condorito aid!!!

Chilenita · Comandante

confundida wrote:

@CHILE

U KNOW ITS TRUE!!! WE WERE RIGHT THERE!!!

I know but it was a sad moment so shut up evileye evileye evileye evileye evileye evileye evileye evileye evileye evileye

Julie finally meets CHE...aww what a moment aww

confundida · Foro Master

@CHILE

U KNOW ITS TRUE!!! WE WERE RIGHT THERE!!!

Chilenita · Comandante

confundida wrote:

ALL I KNOW IS THAT AL CONDORITO LE PEGARON UN PELOTASO!!!

shut up!

confundida · Foro Master

ALL I KNOW IS THAT AL CONDORITO LE PEGARON UN PELOTASO!!!

Hugo · Guru

@ El Duro,

Sigue callando, sigue aguantando que te traten mal even though you were born here, I guess it is ultimately up to you. Quizas tenemos diferentes culturas, lo que si te puedo asegurar es que la mayoria de los chilenos aqui y en todo el mundo no aguantan este tipo de abusos, ni por parte de la policia, ni del gobierno, ni de nadie. Es parte de nuestra legacia.

And with regards to your College degree? Que tiene que ver eso aqui? I have a University degree + un postgrado, y que?! Este foro es para presentar tu opinion no importa quien seas ni de donde vengas.

Danny_Cordova · Guru

El Duro wrote:

CAUSE U KNOW WHY WHEN U ARE IN A DIFFENRENT COUNTRY U RESPECT SEE THAT WORD RESPECT THE LAWS OF THE COUNTRY YOU ARE VISTING....

well put nanito

Chilenita · Comandante

God wrote:

Chilenita wrote:

God wrote:

I'm not jumping in any badwagon but I heard from people was there (Latinos no-chilenos and canadians) that some chilenos aassulted/abused/pegaron/empujaron a una chica de seguridad del estadio.

is that true ?

There were females working both as security and cops. I only saw male officers and security outside in the actual fight but I did hear a female security officer was involved inside the stadium. I can't confirm that and either way it doesn't matter. If you sign on as security or to be a cop and you are female then you have to get involved. I don't see how that makes a difference.

Regardless the Gender you know here in Canada if you touch a security officer they will dive and cry like Argentinian Soccer player. And if it's true that can be use against Chilenos you know.....

-- Edited by God at 13:58, 2007-07-23

God · Foro Master

Chilenita wrote:

God wrote:

I'm not jumping in any badwagon but I heard from people was there (Latinos no-chilenos and canadians) that some chilenos aassulted/abused/pegaron/empujaron a una chica de seguridad del estadio.

is that true ?

There were females working both as security and cops. I only saw male officers and security outside in the actual fight but I did hear a female security officer was involved inside the stadium. I can't confirm that and either way it doesn't matter. If you sign on as security or to be a cop and you are female then you have to get involved. I don't see how that makes a difference.

Regardless the Gender you know here in Canada if you touch a security officer they will dive and cry like Argentinian Soccer player. And if it's true that can be use against Chilenos you know.....

-- Edited by God at 13:58, 2007-07-23

LGigolo · Comandante

Chilenita wrote:

God wrote:

I'm not jumping in any badwagon but I heard from people was there (Latinos no-chilenos and canadians) that some chilenos aassulted/abused/pegaron/empujaron a una chica de seguridad del estadio.

is that true ?

There were females working both as security and cops. I only saw male officers and security outside in the actual fight but I did hear a female security officer was involved inside the stadium. I can't confirm that and either way it doesn't matter. If you sign on as security or to be a cop and you are female then you have to get involved. I don't see how that makes a difference.

I think God is saying female cops and security guards are WEAKer!!!

I suggest you put God in his place!

Chilenita · Comandante

God wrote:

I'm not jumping in any badwagon but I heard from people was there (Latinos no-chilenos and canadians) that some chilenos aassulted/abused/pegaron/empujaron a una chica de seguridad del estadio.

is that true ?

There were females working both as security and cops. I only saw male officers and security outside in the actual fight but I did hear a female security officer was involved inside the stadium. I can't confirm that and either way it doesn't matter. If you sign on as security or to be a cop and you are female then you have to get involved. I don't see how that makes a difference.

God · Foro Master

I'm not jumping in any badwagon but I heard from people was there (Latinos no-chilenos and canadians) that some chilenos aassulted/abused/pegaron/empujaron a una chica de seguridad del estadio.

is that true ?

LGigolo · Comandante

Hugo wrote:
@ LGigolo,
Acaso no sabes que lo mas facil de un debate es llevar la contra?

Lo mas dificil de un debate es debatir por el punto erroneo! biggrin

I've had my debates on Foro; but in this particular case, I was not there to see EXACTLY what happened... it's unfortunate what happened and hopefully we all learn something from it.

Chilenita · Comandante

The Fan wrote:

I think this is a chileno - cop thing not latino - cop thing, reason i said so is because a lot of NOT CHILENOS don't care about the incidents because they watch chileno players and fans be so agresive on the field and the stands after the game that they justify the accion of the police after.

My opinion as a latino tha live 30 years in canada is to wait for the investigation, i would not believe what the media is saying specially tvchile because those reporters (sports reporters) are mad angry for the lostwith argentina and are not even been fair to the situacion and are making thing worse.

As far as i know there were also argetinos reporters on the scene and not even one of them are saying the police try to confiscated their material. Only the chilenos reporters are saying so and only the chileno fans are complaining, so i also think a lot of this have to do with the lost.

Pra los que les importe yo nuca e sido victima de racismo o descrimacion en Canada, quizas por suerte o por que mis padres me ensenaron a respetar a los demas y recibire respeto de ellos.

This had NOTHING to do with the loss against Argentina. In fact the Chilean fans didn't stick around to cause fights or say anything at all to the fans from Argentina. They were all waiting to meet players like after every other game that Chile played.

Good to hear you as a latino have never experianced harrasement for being a "latino" I think many of us on this foro haven't either but many do and it's not because of the life lessons thier parents forgot to teach them.

Sounds like you have your mind made up about what happened b4 any investigation takes place.

The Fan · Senior Member

I think this is a chileno - cop thing not latino - cop thing, reason i said so is because a lot of NOT CHILENOS don't care about the incidents because they watch chileno players and fans be so agresive on the field and the stands after the game that they justify the accion of the police after.

My opinion as a latino tha live 30 years in canada is to wait for the investigation, i would not believe what the media is saying specially tvchile because those reporters (sports reporters) are mad angry for the lostwith argentina and are not even been fair to the situacion and are making thing worse.

As far as i know there were also argetinos reporters on the scene and not even one of them are saying the police try to confiscated their material. Only the chilenos reporters are saying so and only the chileno fans are complaining, so i also think a lot of this have to do with the lost.

Pra los que les importe yo nuca e sido victima de racismo o descrimacion en Canada, quizas por suerte o por que mis padres me ensenaron a respetar a los demas y recibire respeto de ellos.

Chilenita · Comandante

El Duro wrote:

careguea wrote:

it's an incident that happened.. there is no way to forget. Lets just forget about what happened on 9/11, or how gun control is ass in Canada and any gangbanger found with a gun just ends up talking to a judge and posting bail with drug money and back on the street in no time..... nah lets forget about all that stuff too b/c it's none of our problems either.

Where you droped as a child, how are u going to compare 9/11 to this..or what the gun violence that is hurting OUR CITY, you can not copmare those things to this... this was just kid letting off steam after the game..

@hugo

your just a moron..

does national team feed u?. listen I have been stopped by cop and harrased, not as a canadian, but as a latino,and i just take the tickets to court.. i'm a canadian I WAS born Here, my parents are south americans,and they have been here for 36 years.. I have a College Degree, but u can never beat the cops, u can never try to stuck a cop, EVEN IF IT WAS MY NATIONAL TEAM IN WHAT HAD HAPPEN I WOULDN'T CARE CAUSE U KNOW WHY WHEN U ARE IN A DIFFENRENT COUNTRY U RESPECT SEE THAT WORD RESPECT THE LAWS OF THE COUNTRY YOU ARE VISTING....

I really don't have time to go on with this cause i have better thing to do with my time..

Plus you had to be there to know that it was not them being disrespectful. It had nothing to do with respect or lack there of

El Duro · Foro Master

careguea wrote:

it's an incident that happened.. there is no way to forget. Lets just forget about what happened on 9/11, or how gun control is ass in Canada and any gangbanger found with a gun just ends up talking to a judge and posting bail with drug money and back on the street in no time..... nah lets forget about all that stuff too b/c it's none of our problems either.

Where you droped as a child, how are u going to compare 9/11 to this..or what the gun violence that is hurting OUR CITY, you can not copmare those things to this... this was just kid letting off steam after the game..

@hugo

your just a moron..

does national team feed u?. listen I have been stopped by cop and harrased, not as a canadian, but as a latino,and i just take the tickets to court.. i'm a canadian I WAS born Here, my parents are south americans,and they have been here for 36 years.. I have a College Degree, but u can never beat the cops, u can never try to stuck a cop, EVEN IF IT WAS MY NATIONAL TEAM IN WHAT HAD HAPPEN I WOULDN'T CARE CAUSE U KNOW WHY WHEN U ARE IN A DIFFENRENT COUNTRY U RESPECT SEE THAT WORD RESPECT THE LAWS OF THE COUNTRY YOU ARE VISTING....

I really don't have time to go on with this cause i have better thing to do with my time..

Motown Junkie · TOP Guru

Chilenita wrote:

Motown Junkie wrote:

Chilenita wrote:

I was there! It went down the way the players said it did. We were all waiting to say hello to them. They tried to come and greet us. Security freaked out on them...they reacted...police got involved and used way too much force to calm the situation. The problem was that security was scared of how many fans were waiting to greet them. They were afraid things were going to get out of control and the reacted the wrong way. They know nothing about soccer and they know nothing about soccer crowds.

Anyone think if the leafs would have wanted to greet fans security would have stopped them...I THINK NOT!

They do raids all over the city to get rid of hardcore criminals yet they don't use ANY pepper spray and tazers. ****!!!!

ignore those who say forget all about it. it's only cuz it was not their team.

How do you know they don't use tazers and pepper spray in those raids??!!! Sometimes, they do them so early that these people are still in bed they don't even have time to react.

Here's what I THINK but you were there so I guess I can't say much but I THINK that yes, the players were on their way to the fans and to avoid any Argentinian fans from causing a ruckus, the police just wanted to alleviate the situation and just separate them entirely. Albeit, a little TOO much but you don't see any "Rodney King" scenes.

You know what though? You're right. If it was the Colombian team or the Trini team, I'd be upset but you know........I wouldn't be going ape $hit demanding an apology from the Canadian government and starting a thousand groups about police brutality and blah blah blah. If the cops beat the Chilean players so bad, I think they wouldn't have been able to play yesterday. I think it's ridiculous how I heard someone say, "For now on when Chilenos hear the word CANADA, they'll always think of getting beat up!"

GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!

Please don't kill me!!!

-- Edited by Motown Junkie at 09:57, 2007-07-23
"IF" Question: have you ever been tazered? Ever been pepper sprayed? It's not a walk in the park. There is no question of how badly they were beaten. Nobody is saying the cops didn't beat them. The cops aren't even saying they didn't beat them. They are trying to justify what happened they are not denying it. BTW mojo I was there and there were NO fans from Argentina there they were on the other side of the stadium celebrating the so called victory. NO argentinos at all.

I know you were there.

My mumble jumble (MJ - ha!) is all THEORY!! Which has been thrown out the window..........

Yeah, I've been tazered. Sucks big fat kitty balls

Ok, well I've got nothing.

Chilenita · Comandante

Motown Junkie wrote:

Chilenita wrote:

I was there! It went down the way the players said it did. We were all waiting to say hello to them. They tried to come and greet us. Security freaked out on them...they reacted...police got involved and used way too much force to calm the situation. The problem was that security was scared of how many fans were waiting to greet them. They were afraid things were going to get out of control and the reacted the wrong way. They know nothing about soccer and they know nothing about soccer crowds.

Anyone think if the leafs would have wanted to greet fans security would have stopped them...I THINK NOT!

They do raids all over the city to get rid of hardcore criminals yet they don't use ANY pepper spray and tazers. ****!!!!

ignore those who say forget all about it. it's only cuz it was not their team.

How do you know they don't use tazers and pepper spray in those raids??!!! Sometimes, they do them so early that these people are still in bed they don't even have time to react.

Here's what I THINK but you were there so I guess I can't say much but I THINK that yes, the players were on their way to the fans and to avoid any Argentinian fans from causing a ruckus, the police just wanted to alleviate the situation and just separate them entirely. Albeit, a little TOO much but you don't see any "Rodney King" scenes.

You know what though? You're right. If it was the Colombian team or the Trini team, I'd be upset but you know........I wouldn't be going ape $hit demanding an apology from the Canadian government and starting a thousand groups about police brutality and blah blah blah. If the cops beat the Chilean players so bad, I think they wouldn't have been able to play yesterday. I think it's ridiculous how I heard someone say, "For now on when Chilenos hear the word CANADA, they'll always think of getting beat up!"

GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!

Please don't kill me!!!

-- Edited by Motown Junkie at 09:57, 2007-07-23

"IF" Question: have you ever been tazered? Ever been pepper sprayed? It's not a walk in the park. There is no question of how badly they were beaten. Nobody is saying the cops didn't beat them. The cops aren't even saying they didn't beat them. They are trying to justify what happened they are not denying it. BTW mojo I was there and there were NO fans from Argentina there they were on the other side of the stadium celebrating the so called victory. NO argentinos at all.

Motown Junkie · TOP Guru

Chilenita wrote:

I was there! It went down the way the players said it did. We were all waiting to say hello to them. They tried to come and greet us. Security freaked out on them...they reacted...police got involved and used way too much force to calm the situation. The problem was that security was scared of how many fans were waiting to greet them. They were afraid things were going to get out of control and the reacted the wrong way. They know nothing about soccer and they know nothing about soccer crowds.

Anyone think if the leafs would have wanted to greet fans security would have stopped them...I THINK NOT!

They do raids all over the city to get rid of hardcore criminals yet they don't use ANY pepper spray and tazers. ****!!!!

ignore those who say forget all about it. it's only cuz it was not their team.

How do you know they don't use tazers and pepper spray in those raids??!!! Sometimes, they do them so early that these people are still in bed they don't even have time to react.

Here's what I THINK but you were there so I guess I can't say much but I THINK that yes, the players were on their way to the fans and to avoid any Argentinian fans from causing a ruckus, the police just wanted to alleviate the situation and just separate them entirely. Albeit, a little TOO much but you don't see any "Rodney King" scenes.

You know what though? You're right. If it was the Colombian team or the Trini team, I'd be upset but you know........I wouldn't be going ape $hit demanding an apology from the Canadian government and starting a thousand groups about police brutality and blah blah blah. If the cops beat the Chilean players so bad, I think they wouldn't have been able to play yesterday. I think it's ridiculous how I heard someone say, "For now on when Chilenos hear the word CANADA, they'll always think of getting beat up!"

GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!

Please don't kill me!!!

-- Edited by Motown Junkie at 09:57, 2007-07-23

Chilenita · Comandante

I was there! It went down the way the players said it did. We were all waiting to say hello to them. They tried to come and greet us. Security freaked out on them...they reacted...police got involved and used way too much force to calm the situation. The problem was that security was scared of how many fans were waiting to greet them. They were afraid things were going to get out of control and the reacted the wrong way. They know nothing about soccer and they know nothing about soccer crowds.

Anyone think if the leafs would have wanted to greet fans security would have stopped them...I THINK NOT!

They do raids all over the city to get rid of hardcore criminals yet they don't use ANY pepper spray and tazers. ****!!!!

ignore those who say forget all about it. it's only cuz it was not their team.

Hugo · Guru

@ Dogo,

Gracias por tu opinion, pero mantengo la mia. Tengo dos amigos que son policias en Toronto y uno Mississisauga, si hablo es por que he visto y escuchado cosas que me dan el derecho a decir que un buen numero de ellos son incultos, racistas, e imbeciles.

En cuanto a lo de la investigacion estoy de acuerdo contigo, pero los taser guns solo se deben usar en casos extremos, cuando un policia ve en peligro su vida y en vez de dispararle a alguien, no contra una persona que esta reusandose a ser arrestada (en gran parte por no entender la situacion), un jugador que viene a representar a un pais, ningun delincuente, y menos por la espalda, acaso se te olvida la edad de estos muchachos? Gritaban de dolor, gritaban pos sus mamas! En el partido de hoy hubieron seis bajas! Tres de ellos con lesiones! Hematomas y todo! En que otro mundial se habia visto semejante abuso?

Ohh y por si aun tienes ganas de defender a este pais tan ordenado y correcto segun tu, que opinas de las cintas confiscadas a los periodistas? El encerramiento que sufrieron por tres horas dentro de una oficina sin luz! La censura hoy en el estadio, ya que no permitian a nadie llevar ningun tipo de pancartas ni nada en contra de la fifa o la policia, etc, en fin, esto da para mucho mas...

@ LGigolo,

Acaso no sabes que lo mas facil de un debate es llevar la contra?

-- Edited by Hugo at 01:12, 2007-07-23

-- Edited by Hugo at 01:17, 2007-07-23

rick · Guru

no es por defender a los chilenos pero aqui en canada muchos de esos cops son unos abusivos porque creen que son cops hacen lo que quieren. Lo malo de muchos latinos es que muchas vecen se dejan oprimir y no son de quejarse. Como dicho si esto le hubiera pasado a un equipo canadiense o americano hubiera estado en todas las noticias de aqui , gente quejandose , protestas.. Los latinos tienen que ser fuertes y protestar sino nos pasan por encima . otras comunidades aqui en toronto tienen mas peso que nosotros por esas razones. Lo malo de la comunidad latina aqui es que no somos unidos y cada uno mira para su lado o se hace el que no vio nada.Y los pocos que protestan no son suficientes para hacer algo. Me parecio bien la actitud de chile de mandar gente del gobierno a hacer su queja.. la siguiente vez nos miraran diferentes y sabran que no somos una comunidad cualquiera.

No apruebo la actitud de los jugadores chilenos pero tampoc el de la policia ... ellos son los llamados a calmar las cosas. estos eran jugadores profesionales de futbol , no un grupo de delincuentes o de hinchas peleandose afuera.

LGigolo · Comandante

yeah, yeah - whatever Dog said

He's sounding smarter every time I log on!

Dogo · Comandante

Hola hugo. I don't mean to downplay the situation, Y estoy de acuerdo con casi todo lo que mecionastes arriba... pero me gustaria dar mi opinion, y espero la puedas tomar como eso. Una opinion

Creo que nuevos immigrantes, o visitantes, no estan acostumbrados a reglas simples que al mismo tiempo son de tanto rigor (especialmente la gente joven)
En nuestros paises tirar un poncho de plastico a la cancha es cosa de ninios.... en canada, si la regla es que"no se puede tirar NADA a la cancha" (asi sea una roca o una pluma) es asi y se impone esa regla al pie de la letra, y si de todas maneras lo tiras.. Bueno, atienete a las consecuencias. Y todos los que vivimos aqui por un tiempo sabemos que es asi (que de ninguna manera justifica la accion del rent-a-cop que describes, pero digo que las reglas aqui son asi) Tampoco esto es tierra de nadie, o una anarquia. Creo que canada es muy reconocido por ser un pais super organisado (tanto que hasta molesta aveces) Y creo que este tipo de estructura tan estructurada -valga la redundancia- es una que, como immigrantes, nos cuesta acostrumbrarnos a ella

Hacerca de los "imbeciles" que apenas terminaron highschool y se hacen policias... no se si te refieres a los policias en nuestros paises, o a los policias canadienses, pero los policias canadienses no "salen de highschool y se hacen policias" Es un programa terciario de almenos 3 a 4 anios, muy riguroso, fisica y psycologicamente + background check y toda la huevada. Asi que no cualquier "chump" que sale de highschool puede ser policia, (como en nuestros paises) al menos no en este pais (que no quiere decir que no haya malos policias)

Tampoco me animo a formar una opinion hacerca de lo que sucedio despues del partido, y me parece muy injusto, para las dos partes, dar alguna hasta que no se hagan las investigaciones pertinentes
Creo que nadie, hasta el momento, puede decir que la fuerza de los policias fue excesiva, sin saber que fue lo que sucedio. "Excesiva" obviamente se refiere que fue mas de lo necesario, creo que nadie hasta el momento puede decir si fue o no "mas de lo necesario" hasta que no se cumpla una investigacion como corresponde

Hacerca de ser tratado diferente por ser un grupo minoritario, bueno, afortunadamente no he tenido esa experiencia, o talves he sabido mantenerme fuera de problemas, pero no disputo que no exista

De todas maneras, suerte en tu lucha

-- Edited by Dogo at 17:31, 2007-07-22

Hugo · Guru

@ el duro & taco,

ignorant ****s like you are the problem with latinos, siempre cayando y aguantando como si aun fueran indios, tenemos derechos como cualquier otra persona, porque seguir cayando? Porque seguir aguantando? Acaso nunca han sido discrimandos o mal tratados por la policia aqui en Toronto? Even the ****ing TTC drivers go on power trips against minorities? Who the hell are you trying to fool by saying "that has nothing to do with us, that is their problem"? Acaso no conocen a nadie que haya sido discrimando o golpeado por los ****ing cops? Son intocables! Se protegen entre ellos y siempre ganan! Y por ke? Porque latinos ignorantes com Uds, que no conocen sus derechos como cuidadanos, prefiern callar y seguir viviendo aplastados toda su vida, no se que tipo de educacion tendran Uds pero a mi, ni a mi familia nadie nos viene a faltar el respeto ni a tratarnos como delincuentes, yo soy canadiense y mi familia lleva aqui mas de 30 anios! En mi familia hay abogados, doctores, e ingenieros, porque deberia dejarme aplastar por un imbecil que apenas termino high school y se hizo policia?

Es mas, para ir mas alla, y para justificar my outrage, minutos despues de haber comenzado el primer tiempo un chileno enojado con el arbitro tiro una bolsa de plastico a la cancha, protestando contra el arbitro, uno de los guardias lo vio y comenzo a gritarle que se vaya del estadio, obviamente todo el mundo comenzo a pifiar al guardia, pero este enfurecido comenzo a internarse dentro de la gente para ir a sacar a este fan que solo habia tirado un poncho de plastico hecho pelota. Asi, mientras el guardia corria enfurecido hacia este fan, pisoteaba, pegaba, y aplastaba a ninios, mujeres y abuelitos para llegar hasta este fan, en eso mi suegro de mas de 50 anios se para para ir al banio, obviamente sin estar al tanto de lo ques estaba pasando y el guardia en su estado de ira lo empuja por las escaleras hacia abajo to get him out of the way! Viendo tal injusticia la gente se fue y comenzo a atacar al guardia de seguridad, llegaron los policias y adivina que hicieron? Comenzaron a repartir palos y empujar out of the way a ninios, mujeres y abuelos, se llevaron a mi suegro y a mi tio arrestados y al guardia no le hicieron absolutamente nada!! Es mas cuando yo trataba de explicarles a los policias lo que habia pasado, Argentinos, Italianos, Canadienses, etc todo el mundo trataba de explicarles a los policias lo que habia pasado y aun asi no hicieron nada contra el security guard. La policia incluso me amenazo de llevarme a mi arrestado si no me controlaba, pero como me iba a controlar si no escuchaban mi opinion ante tanta injusticia!

Despues de ver todo esto me contacte con el jefe de security de BMO field, quien vino inmediatamente y obligo a este security guard a mostrarme su badge number. Obviamente we are pressing charges. And if that toy cop ever had dreams of becoming a real cop, they are so done, because he even shouted out loud a couple of racist remarks like "you guys are all the same, you belong in cages", etc.

Todo esto paso en la seccion mas cara del estadio y recien comenzado el segundo tiempo. Yo he ido a cada partido de Chile, incluso los jugados fuera de Ontario, pero ese dia la policia estaba nerviosa, as if they had been warned of a high risk soceer match, no estan preparados para un mundial de futbol, no entienden el deporte y no entienden a la gente de otra cultura.

Yo me pregunto, que harian los Canadienses si a los players de los Leafs les pegaran y electrocutaran en algun otro pais mientras esten representando a Canada? Acaso no habria la misma reaccion de injusticia y desesperacion por parte de la gente?

Y para terminar, cuando ya salimos del estadio y ya habia terminado de conseguir todos los numeros de telefonos y contactos para quejarme y poner una denuncia, veo que un grupo de almenos 30 policias comienza a dirigirse hacia nosotros, vueltos locos, a tal descontrol que atropellaron a un caballero argentino, un caballero de edad, quedo sangrando y todo y ningun ****ing cop paro para ayudarlo, la ambulancia lo tuvo que ir a asistir. En ese momento seguro que estaba pasando lo de los jugadores chilenos al otro lado del estadio.

El problema aqui no fue entre Chilenos vs Argentinos, fue entre los arrogantes, ignorantes e intocables policias y nosotros los inmigrantes delincuentes, es asi como nos ven, el que no fue al estadio por favor que no opine, porque chilenos y argentinos estaban unidos frente a esta injusticia, que lamentablemente seguira ocurriendo mientras personas ignorantes como taco y duro sigan callando y aguantando.

-- Edited by Hugo at 15:01, 2007-07-21