Middle East Crisis: Can something be done?

torontotrucho · Guru

RE: Middle East Crisis: Can something be done?

Daeveed · Foro Master

bistor wrote:

What you're proposing would effectively distinguish between tier-1 and tier-2 citizens. I imagine the lebanese that came here, came looking for a better life. I believe they contributed to the country, paid their taxes, and were granted citizenship, with all its benefits and responsabilities. To say that canadians living overseas are any less canadian is ridiculous.

I know where you're coming from, and I agree with you, Canadian citizenship should be one and equal for all who have it.

I was just saying....

JOKER_ESCO · Foro Master

bistor wrote:

Julie wrote: bistor wrote: The israeli newspapers that I've read don't paint a much different picture. Israel is targetting lebanese infrastructure, in addition to hizbula targets. They have killed some 300 lebanese (the vast majority, civilians) versus 29 israelis killed by hizbula (about half of them civilians). If this isn't a disproportionate response, what is? Ok, I really don't want to start debating this subject (mostly because Irecognize that I have not read enough about it) but remember that they have many, but MANY underground sheltters in Israel and this, obviously help to reduce the # of the deads to almost 0 I'll stop here, honestly but another time, I will be more than happy to talk about it and exchange opinions. If Israel knows they don't have shelters, why the are they bombing civilian areas and civilian infrastructure? I'm no fan of islamic fundamentalism, but Israel's policies are simply criminal.

I agree with u in that, I can't understand why they would kill many civillians just 2 get 1 person.

bistor · Guru

Julie wrote:

bistor wrote:
The israeli newspapers that I've read don't paint a much different picture. Israel is targetting lebanese infrastructure, in addition to hizbula targets. They have killed some 300 lebanese (the vast majority, civilians) versus 29 israelis killed by hizbula (about half of them civilians). If this isn't a disproportionate response, what is?

Ok, I really don't want to start debating this subject (mostly because Irecognize that I have not read enough about it) but remember that they have many, but MANY underground sheltters in Israel and this, obviously help to reduce the # of the deads to almost 0
I'll stop here, honestly but another time, I will be more than happy to talk about it and exchange opinions.

If Israel knows they don't have shelters, why the are they bombing civilian areas and civilian infrastructure?

I'm no fan of islamic fundamentalism, but Israel's policies are simply criminal.

Daeveed · Foro Master

Marky Mark wrote:

I beg to differ. I said I was thinking the same thing BUT I never said WHEN I was thinking it! In fact, I was thinking about it since the summer of 2002. If you were thinking about it recently, then, I'm sorry but... you my friend... are the FOLLOWER!!!

I'm sorry to tell you this, but you failed to notice that I also did not mention when this situation came before me.

Let me tell you a little story....

It was the brink of the Persian Gulf War in 1991, .....bah!!!!

Julie · Comandante

bistor wrote:

The israeli newspapers that I've read don't paint a much different picture. Israel is targetting lebanese infrastructure, in addition to hizbula targets. They have killed some 300 lebanese (the vast majority, civilians) versus 29 israelis killed by hizbula (about half of them civilians). If this isn't a disproportionate response, what is?

Ok, I really don't want to start debating this subject (mostly because Irecognize that I have not read enough about it) but remember that they have many, but MANY underground sheltters in Israel and this, obviously help to reduce the # of the deads to almost 0

I'll stop here, honestly but another time, I will be more than happy to talk about it and exchange opinions.

bistor · Guru

Julie wrote:

bistor wrote:
I don't know if it was one of the last or not. And perhaps you right that the operation could have been planned better. I don't know. What I'm disputing is that it's not our government's responsability to get these people out. I believe it is, and they appear to believe so too. Hindisght is 20/20, and nobody knew what the scope of the problem would be until very recently. Who would have thought that Israel would react in such a disproportionate way?

Anyway, it is a much deeper problem than just 2 soldiers being the hostages of the Hezbolah. But as usual, we only hear 1 side of the story (remember Vietnam and former Yougoslavia, etc....)
And yes pple YOU HAVE TO REGISTER IN YOUR RESPECTIVE EMBASSY if you have more than 1 citizen ship. If you are on vacations, of course it is different.

All that sucks big time and I really hope they will come to a cease fire :spellingtolazytocheck: quickly.

The israeli newspapers that I've read don't paint a much different picture.

Israel is targetting lebanese infrastructure, in addition to hizbula targets. They have killed some 300 lebanese (the vast majority, civilians) versus 29 israelis killed by hizbula (about half of them civilians).

If this isn't a disproportionate response, what is?

bistor · Guru

Daeveed wrote:

bistor wrote:
The majority of the canadians in lebanon are naturalized canadians, or canadians of lebanese origin. I would imagine there are also tens of thousands of canadians in Italy or Greece. People travel. I have read there were many chileans in Sweden, but I didn't know they were the largest foreign population.

That makes sense, I was thinking that would be the case. Which brings to my mind another point that goes along the lines of what Joker_Esco was saying.
If these people became Canadians just to get the benefits of being a Canadian citizen, and then moved back to their home country...should they receive the same benefits as Canadians residing in Canada? Are they paying taxes?
I know this would be nearly impossible to control in an efficient or fair manner, and I know it won't happen, but it seems like there's a loophole there.

What you're proposing would effectively distinguish between tier-1 and tier-2 citizens.

I imagine the lebanese that came here, came looking for a better life. I believe they contributed to the country, paid their taxes, and were granted citizenship, with all its benefits and responsabilities.

To say that canadians living overseas are any less canadian is ridiculous.

Julie · Comandante

bistor wrote:

I don't know if it was one of the last or not. And perhaps you right that the operation could have been planned better. I don't know. What I'm disputing is that it's not our government's responsability to get these people out. I believe it is, and they appear to believe so too. Hindisght is 20/20, and nobody knew what the scope of the problem would be until very recently. Who would have thought that Israel would react in such a disproportionate way?

Anyway, it is a much deeper problem than just 2 soldiers being the hostages of the Hezbolah. But as usual, we only hear 1 side of the story (remember Vietnam and former Yougoslavia, etc....)

And yes pple YOU HAVE TO REGISTER IN YOUR RESPECTIVE EMBASSY if you have more than 1 citizen ship. If you are on vacations, of course it is different.

All that sucks big time and I really hope they will come to a cease fire :spellingtolazytocheck: quickly.

Daeveed · Foro Master

bistor wrote:

The majority of the canadians in lebanon are naturalized canadians, or canadians of lebanese origin. I would imagine there are also tens of thousands of canadians in Italy or Greece. People travel. I have read there were many chileans in Sweden, but I didn't know they were the largest foreign population.

That makes sense, I was thinking that would be the case. Which brings to my mind another point that goes along the lines of what Joker_Esco was saying.

If these people became Canadians just to get the benefits of being a Canadian citizen, and then moved back to their home country...should they receive the same benefits as Canadians residing in Canada? Are they paying taxes?

I know this would be nearly impossible to control in an efficient or fair manner, and I know it won't happen, but it seems like there's a loophole there.

Marky Mark · Foro Master

Daeveed wrote:

Marky Mark wrote:
I was thinking the same thing!!!!!
Follower!!!

I beg to differ. I said I was thinking the same thing BUT I never said WHEN I was thinking it!

In fact, I was thinking about it since the summer of 2002. If you were thinking about it recently, then, I'm sorry but... you my friend... are the FOLLOWER!!!

bistor · Guru

Daeveed wrote:

bistor wrote:
There are 175 000 lebanese iin Canada. Shouldn't be too surprising...

It is.
Canada is globally known for its immigration policies, but Lebanon?
On a side note. Did you know that the second largest ethnic population in Sweden is Chilean?

The majority of the canadians in lebanon are naturalized canadians, or canadians of lebanese origin. I would imagine there are also tens of thousands of canadians in Italy or Greece. People travel.

I have read there were many chileans in Sweden, but I didn't know they were the largest foreign population.

JOKER_ESCO · Foro Master

bistor wrote:

JOKER_ESCO wrote: bistor wrote: JOKER_ESCO wrote: bistor wrote: JOKER_ESCO wrote: One thing that I don't understand is why are people in Lebanon demanding the Gov. of Canada 2 get them back home right away, I think is your responsibility 2 take care of your self once u leave Canada, the Gov. only can do so much. But they put all the responsibility 2 Canada, like this lady I saw yesterday in T.V. she send her 3 kids n she is mad cause the Gov. has not get them back home.. It is the responsability of a country to take care of its citizens. This is what we pay taxes for. If 40 000 citizens are caught in a warzone by no fault of their own, I would hope a government does something about it. I am sorry but I thought we pay taxes to take care of us here, Most of this people are not even register in the Canadian embassy, Canada has no power over any other Gov. They are trying everything they can so why are they complaining, even the mighty U.S. is having the same problem, they have 2 have patients in order 4 Canada 2 bring them home, they are freaking lucky they citizens of this country, I was watching in CBC this morning also countries like Brazil n other poor countries can't so $hit about their citizens. It appears you were mistaken then. We pay taxes to take care of the interests of our citizens, wherever they may be. And yes, that includes those caught in a warzone or in an area devastated by a tsunami. Brazil is Brazil. Canada is Canada. Consider yourself lucky to be the citizen of country that works well. I find your lack of sensitivity towards people that are going through a war, disconcerting. Why exactly are you surprised that they are complaining? F@ck yeah I am lucky 2 leave here n be a citizen of this country, U find it disconcerting well I don't I grow up in a torn way country I saw what war does first hand, I am surprised cause Canada open their doors when their country was on war in the 80's just like mine, n now cause they are citizens they are complaining cause they are taking 2 long 2 get them out of there?? $hit come on I have the Gov. of Harper just like allot of PPL here but they are freaking doing everything they can so cut the bull $hit n let the Gov. do their job, Well all pay taxes we should be cover anywhere when we are citizens of Canada but have some freaking patience this is half the world away from Canada, most of this PPL born in Lebanon they go n leave there cause the country was better but now they have way they claim 2 be Canadians when in first place they may not even be paying taxes, We are all lucky 2 leave here, born here or what ever, but don't spec the Gov. be taking care of your @$$ all the time, there so much domestic $hit going on here n they are not even been able 2 fix it, so how the hell they expect 2 be taking care of them out, once u leave Canada on Vac. or what ever Canada is not responsible 4 your @$$. Joker, you seem to believe (amusingly) that people, when faced with war and the real possibility of being killed, behave rationally. They don't. As to your insistance that Canada should have no responsability for its citizens outside of its borders, all I can say is, I'm glad you're not running the show . There is a reason why countries maintain embassies overseas, and it's not so diplomats can travel and see the world.

Sure Canada should be responsible, but remember u are just a visitor 2 this countr ( Lebanon ) Canada is doing everything they can, it takes time 2 move 40,000 people so have patience that's what I am saying, don't blame Canada.

Daeveed · Foro Master

Marky Mark wrote:

I was thinking the same thing!!!!!

Follower!!!

bistor · Guru

JOKER_ESCO wrote:

bistor wrote:
JOKER_ESCO wrote: bistor wrote: JOKER_ESCO wrote: One thing that I don't understand is why are people in Lebanon demanding the Gov. of Canada 2 get them back home right away, I think is your responsibility 2 take care of your self once u leave Canada, the Gov. only can do so much. But they put all the responsibility 2 Canada, like this lady I saw yesterday in T.V. she send her 3 kids n she is mad cause the Gov. has not get them back home.. It is the responsability of a country to take care of its citizens. This is what we pay taxes for. If 40 000 citizens are caught in a warzone by no fault of their own, I would hope a government does something about it. I am sorry but I thought we pay taxes to take care of us here, Most of this people are not even register in the Canadian embassy, Canada has no power over any other Gov. They are trying everything they can so why are they complaining, even the mighty U.S. is having the same problem, they have 2 have patients in order 4 Canada 2 bring them home, they are freaking lucky they citizens of this country, I was watching in CBC this morning also countries like Brazil n other poor countries can't so $hit about their citizens. It appears you were mistaken then. We pay taxes to take care of the interests of our citizens, wherever they may be. And yes, that includes those caught in a warzone or in an area devastated by a tsunami. Brazil is Brazil. Canada is Canada. Consider yourself lucky to be the citizen of country that works well. I find your lack of sensitivity towards people that are going through a war, disconcerting. Why exactly are you surprised that they are complaining?

F@ck yeah I am lucky 2 leave here n be a citizen of this country, U find it disconcerting well I don't I grow up in a torn way country I saw what war does first hand, I am surprised cause Canada open their doors when their country was on war in the 80's just like mine, n now cause they are citizens they are complaining cause they are taking 2 long 2 get them out of there?? $hit come on I have the Gov. of Harper just like allot of PPL here but they are freaking doing everything they can so cut the bull $hit n let the Gov. do their job, Well all pay taxes we should be cover anywhere when we are citizens of Canada but have some freaking patience this is half the world away from Canada, most of this PPL born in Lebanon they go n leave there cause the country was better but now they have way they claim 2 be Canadians when in first place they may not even be paying taxes, We are all lucky 2 leave here, born here or what ever, but don't spec the Gov. be taking care of your @$$ all the time, there so much domestic $hit going on here n they are not even been able 2 fix it, so how the hell they expect 2 be taking care of them out, once u leave Canada on Vac. or what ever Canada is not responsible 4 your @$$.

Joker, you seem to believe (amusingly) that people, when faced with war and the real possibility of being killed, behave rationally.

They don't.

As to your insistance that Canada should have no responsability for its citizens outside of its borders, all I can say is, I'm glad you're not running the show

. There is a reason why countries maintain embassies overseas, and it's not so diplomats can travel and see the world.

Daeveed · Foro Master

bistor wrote:

There are 175 000 lebanese iin Canada. Shouldn't be too surprising...

It is.

Canada is globally known for its immigration policies, but Lebanon?

On a side note. Did you know that the second largest ethnic population in Sweden is Chilean?

bistor · Guru

Marky Mark wrote:

bistor wrote:

Daeveed wrote:
What strikes me the most out of all this is that there were 40,000 Canadians in Lebanon!!!
WHY!?!?

There are 175 000 lebanese iin Canada. Shouldn't be too surprising...

How many Lebanese are IN Lebanon?

ETA: Rhetorical question, please do not answer.-- Edited by Marky Mark at 12:38, 2006-07-20

3.5 million.

Couldn't resist

bistor · Guru

Marky Mark wrote:

Daeveed wrote:
What strikes me the most out of all this is that there were 40,000 Canadians in Lebanon!!!
WHY!?!?

I was thinking the same thing!!!!!

To Bistor's point, and don't get me wrong, I do thank GOD that I live in Canada (as I have stated in previous threads). But Canada was one of the last countries, if not THE last to make a decision about getting its citizens out of Lebannon.

So the Canadian Government will take care of its citizens but will wait until someone else decides to do it first.

As great a country that Canada is, government is government and politics is politics.

I don't know if it was one of the last or not. And perhaps you right that the operation could have been planned better. I don't know.

What I'm disputing is that it's not our government's responsability to get these people out. I believe it is, and they appear to believe so too.

Hindisght is 20/20, and nobody knew what the scope of the problem would be until very recently. Who would have thought that Israel would react in such a disproportionate way?

Marky Mark · Foro Master

bistor wrote:

Daeveed wrote:
What strikes me the most out of all this is that there were 40,000 Canadians in Lebanon!!!
WHY!?!?

There are 175 000 lebanese iin Canada. Shouldn't be too surprising...

How many Lebanese are IN Lebanon?

ETA: Rhetorical question, please do not answer.

-- Edited by Marky Mark at 12:38, 2006-07-20

bistor · Guru

Daeveed wrote:

What strikes me the most out of all this is that there were 40,000 Canadians in Lebanon!!!
WHY!?!?

There are 175 000 lebanese iin Canada. Shouldn't be too surprising...

Marky Mark · Foro Master

Daeveed wrote:

What strikes me the most out of all this is that there were 40,000 Canadians in Lebanon!!!
WHY!?!?

I was thinking the same thing!!!!!

To Bistor's point, and don't get me wrong, I do thank GOD that I live in Canada (as I have stated in previous threads). But Canada was one of the last countries, if not THE last to make a decision about getting its citizens out of Lebannon.

So the Canadian Government will take care of its citizens but will wait until someone else decides to do it first.

As great a country that Canada is, government is government and politics is politics.

Daeveed · Foro Master

What strikes me the most out of all this is that there were 40,000 Canadians in Lebanon!!!

WHY!?!?

JOKER_ESCO · Foro Master

bistor wrote:

JOKER_ESCO wrote: bistor wrote: JOKER_ESCO wrote: One thing that I don't understand is why are people in Lebanon demanding the Gov. of Canada 2 get them back home right away, I think is your responsibility 2 take care of your self once u leave Canada, the Gov. only can do so much. But they put all the responsibility 2 Canada, like this lady I saw yesterday in T.V. she send her 3 kids n she is mad cause the Gov. has not get them back home.. It is the responsability of a country to take care of its citizens. This is what we pay taxes for. If 40 000 citizens are caught in a warzone by no fault of their own, I would hope a government does something about it. I am sorry but I thought we pay taxes to take care of us here, Most of this people are not even register in the Canadian embassy, Canada has no power over any other Gov. They are trying everything they can so why are they complaining, even the mighty U.S. is having the same problem, they have 2 have patients in order 4 Canada 2 bring them home, they are freaking lucky they citizens of this country, I was watching in CBC this morning also countries like Brazil n other poor countries can't so $hit about their citizens. It appears you were mistaken then. We pay taxes to take care of the interests of our citizens, wherever they may be. And yes, that includes those caught in a warzone or in an area devastated by a tsunami. Brazil is Brazil. Canada is Canada. Consider yourself lucky to be the citizen of country that works well. I find your lack of sensitivity towards people that are going through a war, disconcerting. Why exactly are you surprised that they are complaining?

F@ck yeah I am lucky 2 leave here n be a citizen of this country, U find it disconcerting well I don't I grow up in a torn way country I saw what war does first hand, I am surprised cause Canada open their doors when their country was on war in the 80's just like mine, n now cause they are citizens they are complaining cause they are taking 2 long 2 get them out of there?? $hit come on I have the Gov. of Harper just like allot of PPL here but they are freaking doing everything they can so cut the bull $hit n let the Gov. do their job, Well all pay taxes we should be cover anywhere when we are citizens of Canada but have some freaking patience this is half the world away from Canada, most of this PPL born in Lebanon they go n leave there cause the country was better but now they have way they claim 2 be Canadians when in first place they may not even be paying taxes, We are all lucky 2 leave here, born here or what ever, but don't spec the Gov. be taking care of your @$$ all the time, there so much domestic $hit going on here n they are not even been able 2 fix it, so how the hell they expect 2 be taking care of them out, once u leave Canada on Vac. or what ever Canada is not responsible 4 your @$$.

bistor · Guru

GENIE wrote:

Me and my family learned the hardway! But thats why when u go to another country they ask you to register with the Embassy or Consulate for one reason incase of a major disaster be it war, tsunami or your kidnapped your consulate and embassy can say yes Fulano de tal entered on this date and was to leave on this date and never made it! or whatever but its more for your self being and peace of mind that you will be safe. And yes it is the countries responsibilty as a tax paying person and to there best intrest that you are safe and back home.

Not only that... the consulate should also send you ballots to vote, or generally keep you posted on important events and services offered by them. It's definitely a good idea to register.

GENIE · Foro Master

Me and my family learned the hardway! But thats why when u go to another country they ask you to register with the Embassy or Consulate for one reason incase of a major disaster be it war, tsunami or your kidnapped your consulate and embassy can say yes Fulano de tal entered on this date and was to leave on this date and never made it! or whatever but its more for your self being and peace of mind that you will be safe. And yes it is the countries responsibilty as a tax paying person and to there best intrest that you are safe and back home.

bistor · Guru

JOKER_ESCO wrote:

bistor wrote:
JOKER_ESCO wrote: One thing that I don't understand is why are people in Lebanon demanding the Gov. of Canada 2 get them back home right away, I think is your responsibility 2 take care of your self once u leave Canada, the Gov. only can do so much. But they put all the responsibility 2 Canada, like this lady I saw yesterday in T.V. she send her 3 kids n she is mad cause the Gov. has not get them back home.. It is the responsability of a country to take care of its citizens. This is what we pay taxes for. If 40 000 citizens are caught in a warzone by no fault of their own, I would hope a government does something about it.

I am sorry but I thought we pay taxes to take care of us here, Most of this people are not even register in the Canadian embassy, Canada has no power over any other Gov. They are trying everything they can so why are they complaining, even the mighty U.S. is having the same problem, they have 2 have patients in order 4 Canada 2 bring them home, they are freaking lucky they citizens of this country, I was watching in CBC this morning also countries like Brazil n other poor countries can't so $hit about their citizens.

It appears you were mistaken then. We pay taxes to take care of the interests of our citizens, wherever they may be.

And yes, that includes those caught in a warzone or in an area devastated by a tsunami.

Brazil is Brazil.

Canada is Canada.

Consider yourself lucky to be the citizen of country that works well.

I find your lack of sensitivity towards people that are going through a war, disconcerting.

Why exactly are you surprised that they are complaining?

Lahtina · Foro Master

JOKER_ESCO wrote:

bistor wrote: JOKER_ESCO wrote: One thing that I don't understand is why are people in Lebanon demanding the Gov. of Canada 2 get them back home right away, I think is your responsibility 2 take care of your self once u leave Canada, the Gov. only can do so much. But they put all the responsibility 2 Canada, like this lady I saw yesterday in T.V. she send her 3 kids n she is mad cause the Gov. has not get them back home.. It is the responsability of a country to take care of its citizens. This is what we pay taxes for. If 40 000 citizens are caught in a warzone by no fault of their own, I would hope a government does something about it. I am sorry but I thought we pay taxes to take care of us here, Most of this people are not even register in the Canadian embassy, Canada has no power over any other Gov. They are trying everything they can so why are they complaining, even the mighty U.S. is having the same problem, they have 2 have patients in order 4 Canada 2 bring them home, they are freaking lucky they citizens of this country, I was watching in CBC this morning also countries like Brazil n other poor countries can't so $hit about their citizens.

That's what they get for evading taxes. Yeah, I know, not funny. Anyway... if it IS the government's responsibility to protect its citizens and get them home, how come the U.S. was going to make its citizens sign a promise payment thingamajiggy but later said they didn't have to? huh, huh, huh?

JOKER_ESCO · Foro Master

bistor wrote:

JOKER_ESCO wrote: One thing that I don't understand is why are people in Lebanon demanding the Gov. of Canada 2 get them back home right away, I think is your responsibility 2 take care of your self once u leave Canada, the Gov. only can do so much. But they put all the responsibility 2 Canada, like this lady I saw yesterday in T.V. she send her 3 kids n she is mad cause the Gov. has not get them back home.. It is the responsability of a country to take care of its citizens. This is what we pay taxes for. If 40 000 citizens are caught in a warzone by no fault of their own, I would hope a government does something about it.

I am sorry but I thought we pay taxes to take care of us here, Most of this people are not even register in the Canadian embassy, Canada has no power over any other Gov. They are trying everything they can so why are they complaining, even the mighty U.S. is having the same problem, they have 2 have patients in order 4 Canada 2 bring them home, they are freaking lucky they citizens of this country, I was watching in CBC this morning also countries like Brazil n other poor countries can't so $hit about their citizens.

bistor · Guru

JOKER_ESCO wrote:

One thing that I don't understand is why are people in Lebanon demanding the Gov. of Canada 2 get them back home right away, I think is your responsibility 2 take care of your self once u leave Canada, the Gov. only can do so much. But they put all the responsibility 2 Canada, like this lady I saw yesterday in T.V. she send her 3 kids n she is mad cause the Gov. has not get them back home..

It is the responsability of a country to take care of its citizens. This is what we pay taxes for.

If 40 000 citizens are caught in a warzone by no fault of their own, I would hope a government does something about it.

Lahtina · Foro Master

JOKER_ESCO wrote:

One thing that I don't understand is why are people in Lebanon demanding the Gov. of Canada 2 get them back home right away, I think is your responsibility 2 take care of your self once u leave Canada, the Gov. only can do so much. But they put all the responsibility 2 Canada, like this lady I saw yesterday in T.V. she send her 3 kids n she is mad cause the Gov. has not get them back home..

I was thinking about this too but I really don't know how this works. Is it your embassy's responsability to get you home safely? Or is it icing on the cake? I think it's a good thing but I think some people there are too demanding, chu know? It's understandable that they are, I'd wanna get out too but it seems to me that most countries are doing the best they can to get their citizens out.

I dunno... les dan la mano y agarran la pata. Why is it always the less fortunate getting the sh*tty end of the stick? (eerrrrrr maybe because they're the less fortunate? ) but I mean, why can't it be the Paris Hilton's, Jessica Simpson's of the world getting bombed? People in Lebanon are afraid now that, once the foreigners are gone, the bombings will intensify.

Lahtina · Foro Master

Daeveed wrote:

Guadalupana wrote: do you have their latest album? if yes, how is it? do you recommend? I think Israel and Lebanon will be locked in a war for at least 10,000 Days, but I still haven't bought the idea of a long war....nonetheless, I hear great praise all over regarding the heroism and stuff. If there's a solution for this I'd like to get it as soon as possible. But in the meantime I'm just comfortable by listening to the previous outcomes.

Daeveed · Foro Master

Guadalupana wrote:

El maistro es inteligentonto no?

haha! I hadn't heard that word in a looooong time.

Guadalupana · Foro Master

Julie wrote:

Daeveed wrote:
Guadalupana wrote: do you have their latest album? if yes, how is it? do you recommend? I think Israel and Lebanon will be locked in a war for at least 10,000 Days, but I still haven't bought the idea of a long war....nonetheless, I hear great praise all over regarding the heroism and stuff. If there's a solution for this I'd like to get it as soon as possible. But in the meantime I'm just comfortable by listening to the previous outcomes.

El maistro es inteligentonto no?

JOKER_ESCO · Foro Master

One thing that I don't understand is why are people in Lebanon demanding the Gov. of Canada 2 get them back home right away, I think is your responsibility 2 take care of your self once u leave Canada, the Gov. only can do so much. But they put all the responsibility 2 Canada, like this lady I saw yesterday in T.V. she send her 3 kids n she is mad cause the Gov. has not get them back home..

Julie · Comandante

Daeveed wrote:

Guadalupana wrote: do you have their latest album? if yes, how is it? do you recommend? I think Israel and Lebanon will be locked in a war for at least 10,000 Days, but I still haven't bought the idea of a long war....nonetheless, I hear great praise all over regarding the heroism and stuff. If there's a solution for this I'd like to get it as soon as possible. But in the meantime I'm just comfortable by listening to the previous outcomes.

Daeveed · Foro Master

Guadalupana wrote:

do you have their latest album? if yes, how is it? do you recommend?

I think Israel and Lebanon will be locked in a war for at least 10,000 Days, but I still haven't bought the idea of a long war....nonetheless, I hear great praise all over regarding the heroism and stuff. If there's a solution for this I'd like to get it as soon as possible. But in the meantime I'm just comfortable by listening to the previous outcomes.

Mastropiero · Guru

People is way more important than ideas....

Why do civilians and troops have to die for stupid decisions the goverment make, and then just to make their families feel better they call them...."Heroes"

If those are decisions that the goverment make why don't we have George W. Bush having a wrestling fight against Kim Jong-il (president of North Korea) to decide who's more powerful and whos' right...If the US think Bush couldn't take him they can even send The governor of California....

If I were a world leader, I would rather a rock,paper,scissors match with another president, than war

Live for your ideas, don't kill for them....

Guadalupana · Foro Master

Lahtina wrote:

Guadalupana wrote:
Daeveed wrote: I love TOOL!!!! do you have their latest album? if yes, how is it? do you recommend?

i know, i know, i meant to appologize before asking Daeveed, but i figured, bah!...

Lahtina · Foro Master

Guadalupana wrote:

Daeveed wrote: I love TOOL!!!! do you have their latest album? if yes, how is it? do you recommend?

Guadalupana · Foro Master

Daeveed wrote:

I love TOOL!!!!

do you have their latest album? if yes, how is it? do you recommend?

bistor · Guru

-- Edited by bistor at 02:33, 2006-07-20

torontotrucho · Guru

Just like Spiderman says.... With great powers come great responsibilities!!!

It would be nice if goverments and armies actually do that; instead they tend to become bullies just like school bullies.

Let's remember Hitler and the nazis, Germany was so strong that they thought they could get away with all those killings. Ironically, it seems that now Israel think they can get away with all those killings too.

Lahtina · Foro Master

Motown Junkie wrote:

Racist!!!

OMG, you don't even know just how big of a racist I am. Well, I dunno, I make a lot (a lot) of racist remarks but it's more of a parody... or so I hope.

Anyway... back to topic: Israel... Lebanon. Can't they just swap soldiers? Bah, that'd be too easy, I guess.

Motown Junkie · TOP Guru

Lahtina wrote:

Daeveed wrote: bistor wrote: This paper seems to dispute Daeveed's hypothesis. "Cohen claims that population pressure was the cause. Unable to stem the human population explosion, ancient humans were forced to adopt a life of toil, disease, and stress. " It actually proves my point. If agriculture had not been invented, the population would have been self-controlled, and not been allowed to boom (is that a verb? I doubt it). It is a verb and that you chose to use it in these times goes to show just how sick of an individual you are (Black humour).

Racist!!!

JOKER_ESCO · Foro Master

Marky Mark · Foro Master

Daeveed wrote:

I love TOOL!!!!

You are what you love.

Daeveed · Foro Master

I love TOOL!!!!

Guadalupana · Foro Master

Vicarious by Tool
Eye on the TV
'Cause tragedy thrills me
Whatever flavor it happens to be, like...
"Killed by the husband"
"Drowned by the ocean"
"Shot by his own son"
"She used a poison
in his tea... then kissed him goodbye"
That's my kind of story
It's never fun 'til someone dies

Don't look at me like
I am a monster
Frown out your one face
But with the other
Stare like a junkie
Into the TV
Stare like a zombie

While the mother holds her child
Watches him die
Hands to the sky crying,
"Why, oh why?"

Cause I need to watch things die... from a distance
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
You all need it too, don't lie

Why can't we just admit it?
Why can't we just admit it?
We won't give pause until the blood is flowing
Neither the brave nor bold
Will write as the story's told
We won't give pause until the blood is flowing

I need to watch things die... from a good safe distance
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
You all feel the same, so...

Why can't we just admit it?

Blood like rain come down
Drum on grave and ground

Part vampire
Part warrior
Carnivore and voyeur
Stare at the transmittal
Sing to the death rattle

La, la, la, la, la, la-la-lie (x4)

Credulous at best
Your desire to believe in
Angels in the hearts of men
Pull your head on out, your head please and give a listen
Shouldn't have to say it all again

The universe is hostile, so impersonal
Devour to survive... so it is, so it's always been

We all feed on tragedy
Its like blood to a vampire

Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
Much better you than I

Lahtina · Foro Master

Daeveed wrote:

bistor wrote: This paper seems to dispute Daeveed's hypothesis. "Cohen claims that population pressure was the cause. Unable to stem the human population explosion, ancient humans were forced to adopt a life of toil, disease, and stress. " It actually proves my point. If agriculture had not been invented, the population would have been self-controlled, and not been allowed to boom (is that a verb? I doubt it).

It is a verb and that you chose to use it in these times goes to show just how sick of an individual you are (Black humour).

bistor · Guru

Daeveed wrote:

bistor wrote:
This paper seems to dispute Daeveed's hypothesis.

"Cohen claims that population pressure was the cause. Unable to stem the human population explosion, ancient humans were forced to adopt a life of toil, disease, and stress. "
It actually proves my point. If agriculture had not been invented, the population would have been self-controlled, and not been allowed to boom (is that a verb? I doubt it).

Anthropological texts have always ballyhooed the development of agriculture as one of man's greatest achievements. Not so, says Mark Cohen, of SUNY Plattsburgh. The switch from hunting and gathering to sedentary agriculture, it seems, occurred rather suddenly and was attended by a sharp drop in life expectancy. Ancient human bones reveal much more disease, fewer older people, and more violent deaths for centuries following the adoption of agriculture. Why did humanity give up the surprising degrees of security, freedom, and leisure intrinsic in hunting and gathering? Cohen claims that population pressure was the cause. Unable to stem the human population explosion, ancient humans were forced to adopt a life of toil, disease, and stress.

How does reduced life expectancy increase population?

Population has exploded only recently. In the past, periodic famines and disease (which the author claims were increased as a result of agriculture) kept population growth in check.

If we want to look for a cause, I would look at the "green revolution" (invention of more efficient fertilizers and pesticides) and better medicine, particularly in obstetrics. Both of those really took off in the XX century.