English Posting in the Forum

eddy22 · Nuevo

RE: English Posting in the Forum

Phantasma · TOP Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: Jinx
"well Phantasma you could always take Spanish classes at the SPANISH CENTER it might help you a lot or read books. Just a few ideas to help you with your spelling. -- Edited by Jinx at 10:51, 2004-12-16"

I could always use spell check too.. but that wasnt the point. The point is choice.

Jinx · TOP Guru

well Phantasma you could always take Spanish classes at the SPANISH CENTER it might help you a lot

or read books. Just a few ideas to help you with your spelling.

-- Edited by Jinx at 10:51, 2004-12-16

TV Buff · TOP Guru

LMFAO !!!

Phantasma · TOP Guru

Latino: n. pl. La·ti·nos
n.

1. A native or inhabitant of Latin America.
2. A person of Latin-American descent.

Latino is not a Culture or a Nationality, it's an Ethnicity, Like Black or White or Asian. So when we refer to Latinos, we are not refering to those of us that are part of or enjoy Latin American culture but those of us who are of Latin American Descent (that means that you are either born there or your mom and dad where.)

For example, If your mom is Chinese and your dad is Chinese and when you are born you are kidnapped by gypsies and raised in Spain, Do you think your classmates are looking at you and thinking, sure he looks kinda different, but he speaks Spanish so he must be from here... no man, You're nickname is "El Chino" for life! There is no getting away from that!

Lets say you are A black kid from Brooklyn, one day when you are 2 years old your Dad gets a real good Job and moves to Mendoza, Argentina and you grow up there.. You learn the language and you say stuff like Posho instead of Pollo... but people still call you "el Negro" ... whats up with that?

Its cause no matter what language you learn (or not learn) you're still chinese, black, Latino, Tamil or whatever the case may be.

With regards to Canadian Culture, there is a real easy way to tell if you are Canadian or not, and here it is:

Look at your passport!

Yes people, Canadian is a Nationality not an Ethnicity, so if the goverment of Canada has granted you Canadian Nationality than my friend, you are Canadian... you can even take the test in another language in case you dont happen to speak English or French...
It doesnt matter what language you speak or what colour you are, you too can be a Canadian. You should probably try to learn some English still, cause it would make your life easier, but strictly speaking, it is not a requirement in order to become a Canadian citizen.

So lets recap;

Black, Latino, Anglo-Saxon, Asian, etc are Ethnic Backgrounds which are based on genealogy.

Latin American, Greco-Roman, Polynesian, etc are Cultures which are a collection of behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought of a particular period, class, community or population.

Canadian, Spanish, Argentinian, Brazilian, Chinese, etc are Nationalities, these are terms used to describe a person that originates or is a citizen of a specific country or nation.

So if you are sitting there thinking, "Sure I got black hair and brown eyes and tanned skin and my name is Juan Ramon but I must not be Latino cause I dont speak spanish so therefore when the Cop yells out: FREEZE SPIC BOY! he is not really talking to me.... Think again homie! and u better freeze before you get a 9mm slug in your nalga!

DR J · Guru

my question to phantasma:

If I didn't speak a word of English, would I consider myself part of Canadian culture?
how would I eat at the local restaurants, or go to museums, art exhibits, films....read local papers and books.....I'll miss out on all this which is 99% of the culture.

Knowing and being part of Latin culture isn't the same as being Latin, or having latin roots. most of us can trace our roots back to Spain, but that doesn't mean we're part of the spanish culture, I don't know much about it anyways...and probably most of us don't.

TV Buff · TOP Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: Phantasma
"No one is saying that being able to speak and write another language isn’t a valuable tool and business resource. All I am saying is that some of us are more comfortable writing in English... Not that my spelling in English is perfect either (as we could appreciate in my previously misspelled signature.. hahaha, thanks TV Buff) And to the person who says you cannot be bicultural without being bilingual I am sorry to tell you but you absolutely can. A lot of our most famous Latino icons don’t even speak Spanish let alone write it. Selena didn’t speak Spanish, her Brother A.B. still sounds like a pocho half the time, Huey Dumbar, Jennifer Lopez medio habla, that dude from Chips. Christina Aguilera (although I don’t think she counts) and a whole bunch of people like that. Even Edward James Olmos doesn’t consider himself fluent in the madre lengua and he's Mr. La Raza... so not being able to speak Spanish does not make you less of a Latino, much like not being able to speak Swahili does not make you any less Black. Therefore, it is absolutely possible to be Bicultural even though you may not be Bilingual. "

I looove the way you argue your point, but I have to disagree with you somehow. Everyone you mentioned, I don't know if I would consider fully Latino. I mean, even Selena almost f*cked up her chances when she went to Mexico and had to talk to the press in Spanish (remember the movie?) As for the other ones, they're just Latinos who've made it pretty much in the States. I don't think their body of work includes anything done in Spanish (except for songs, and that even David Hasselhoff can pull off-- poorly, mind you). When you try to be latino without speaking the language, you lose credibility and you're viewed as a hypocrite. How can you say you're latino if you don't speak the language?

On the other hand, Marc Anthony or Gloria Estefan, for instance, I would think of as bi-cultural. Even Shakira I would think of as bicultural (her English is pretty good). Not J-Lo or Edward James Olmos and DEFINITELY NOT Erik Estrada.

And yes, I do think that if you're more comfortable doing something in English, do it. You have to express yourself in whatever language you feel most comfortable with, but I think it's just vital for Latinos not to lose their language. And no, you CANNOT be bicultural without being bilingual.

TV Buff · TOP Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: Anonymous
"2 key words guys - 1) TORONTO 2) HISPANO this equals: ENGLISH + SPANISH! Estamos en Canada!!! If we were in France, would you b!tch at the people for writing in French and NOT spanish?!? Spanish people who immigrated here to Canada, should make it a priority to better their English. It's in high demand. We shouldn't forget our roots BUT we shouldn't forget which country we're in... ...and if that's still giving you a headache, copy and paste whatever you read and go to this site for a translation you babies! http://www.freetranslation.com/ *sheesh!!"

Just by this posting, I have a pretty good idea of who you are... Jeez, you can be so agressive in your posts... And after all, what are you saying? Are you pro both languages? Are you against both languages? English only? Spanish, maybe? Where do you stand?

Phantasma · TOP Guru

No one is saying that being able to speak and write another language isn’t a valuable tool and business resource. All I am saying is that some of us are more comfortable writing in English... Not that my spelling in English is perfect either (as we could appreciate in my previously misspelled signature.. hahaha, thanks TV Buff)

And to the person who says you cannot be bicultural without being bilingual I am sorry to tell you but you absolutely can.

A lot of our most famous Latino icons don’t even speak Spanish let alone write it. Selena didn’t speak Spanish, her Brother A.B. still sounds like a pocho half the time, Huey Dumbar, Jennifer Lopez medio habla, that dude from Chips. Christina Aguilera (although I don’t think she counts) and a whole bunch of people like that. Even Edward James Olmos doesn’t consider himself fluent in the madre lengua and he's Mr. La Raza... so not being able to speak Spanish does not make you less of a Latino, much like not being able to speak Swahili does not make you any less Black. Therefore, it is absolutely possible to be Bicultural even though you may not be Bilingual.

Date: Dec 14 3:57 PM, 2004

2 key words guys -

1) TORONTO

2) HISPANO

this equals:

ENGLISH + SPANISH!

Estamos en Canada!!! If we were in France, would you b!tch at the people for writing in French and NOT spanish?!? Spanish people who immigrated here to Canada, should make it a priority to better their English. It's in high demand. We shouldn't forget our roots BUT we shouldn't forget which country we're in...

...and if that's still giving you a headache, copy and paste whatever you read and go to this site for a translation you babies!

http://www.freetranslation.com/

*sheesh!!

DR J · Guru

I've done 50% of my schooling in english, but I always kept in mind my need of spanish. I haven't stopped speaking, reading and writing it, because I know it's a powerful skill to have. In my workplace, my salary is higer than my coworkers', why? because I can communicate with our customers in latin america & spain (both, orally and in writing), and I know that when a higher position opens, I'll have an advantage over my coworkers. I've also seen people not hired because they failed the company's spanish test, and these were people that claimed to be fluent in spanish, but made some spelling & grammar mistakes.

Practicing is key to learning a language... why not practice your spanish here in the forum? as somebody said, everyone should be open minded and not give you a hard time about your spelling errors.

One thing I don't agree with you phantasma, is that you said that one can be bicultural without being bilingual.... language is the most important part of a culture, how can you learn about a culture without being able to communicate with its people?

Carlos · Regular Plus

So you mean they should take writing courses before they come to this foro? Please, give me a break. Is nice to see people coming together for once. Most of us can read both languages, so write in what ever language you want. Los que se sienten mejor escribiendo en español, que lo hagan en español, y los que lo hacen en ingles, igual. Asi todos practicamos leyendo el idioma que no dominamos y aprendemos algo nuevo. Yo he aprendido varias fraces en ingles que no sabia aca en este foro.
Post in whatever language you want. Postea y respeta.

Date: Dec 14 12:00 PM, 2004

Also it's very sad to see the English they write....if you want to write in English take a course.......

Date: Dec 14 7:00 AM, 2004

Although I agree with you somehow, there are a couple of things you have to consider: A lot of people who visit this site don't speak or write in English, being that the site is Toronto Hispano, thus you'll get a lot of Spanish speaking people lurking here. They'll miss out on whatever useful (or not so useful information) you might be providing (and I as well, since I'm also writing in English).

Also, being Latina, and even if we're educated here, we should make it a point to try to learn Spanish. This is a beautiful, rich language that we should not lose. Especially now, it's readily available. The Boards of Education have free Spanish classes all over the GTA and Canada, I assume, for kids in elementary school on Saturdays. There are so many ways to learn the language. You can always read, watch television (although that's not the best way), listen to the radio, write a journal, anything. I'm sure people won't make fun of you for misspelling (I mean, everyone's doing it in English anyway, right?) You can always take courses in High School, university, privately. I think it's so, SOOO important for us not to lose our language. I know it's important to learn English, but being bilingual? Oh, man, you've just got it made. I would seriously advise you to improve your Spanish skills. I'm sure the people on this site will be sympathetic of your misspelling errors. Haven't you noticed how open-minded everyone is here? Oh, and by the way, there's no C in Exist.

Para los que leyeron esto y no entendieron ni jota, solo le aconsejé a buddy here que tiene que aprender Español y sentirse orgulloso de sus raíces y su lengua.

Buena suerte con tu aprendizaje,

TV Buff.

Phantasma · TOP Guru

I don’t understand why people are constantly criticizing others in the forum for typing in English.

Just because one is not fluent in the Spanish language does not diminish one's stature as a Latino. One can be bicultural without being bilingual; the two aren’t mutually exclusive.

If you feel most comfortable writing in Spanish you should be able to do so. Much like if you choose to express yourself in English than you should be able to as well. It comes down to personal choice.

I personally did most my schooling here in Toronto so although I can speak Spanish, my spelling is horrible, so to not embarrass myself I just write in English.

I'm sure most of us can read both, so I don’t see what the problem is.