All the examples you gave..are about saving someone's life...and in fact...if you wanna get technical...by him choosing not to advise you...he's trying to save live's...in some sort of round about way.
Sorry Baina, but I think that for a life to be saved, it needs to exist first.
That's why I totally understand the moral issues a doctor may face when doing an abortion, but here there are no lifes to be saved. The only thing the doctor is doing is promoting either sexual abstinence, or procreation. It is up to the individuals to decide whether they are for or against these two things, but not up to their doctors IMHO.
My DAD? que dad? It wasn't my dad's story... it was the DR who was willing to put his own wife at risk by having another kid. What would stop him from doing it to someone else that was also at risk, simply based on what he believes in his faith and not what he's learned as a Dr? (and is WHY I said I gave those examples. READ!) And was your mom at risk.. or simply because of her age? And what do you mean I shouldn't have gone to my dr?... who else do I go to? is there such thing as a "visectomator"?!! "cause I might be wrong, but I don't think you go to a cosmetic surgeon for this
Sorry....I meant to say the Dr. not your dad.
Like I keep saying...he's not putting your life at risk by not giving you advice...so he's not doing anything 'wrong'. That YOU don't like the way he handled it...you're entitled to feel that way. I'm sure that if someone's life was on the line...he'd do what's necessary, as required by his job and not his believes, to save the person.
Anyway......you're like pissed about this?? or just frustrated 'cause you thought he could help you get it up as well???
LOL... Upset?! No!!! I just have mixed emotions about the way he handled it And based on what he told me about his personal situation with his wife, it makes me think that he might be capable of more than just turning someone down for a vasectomy (which is a diff topic, but...) I hope YOU are right and he WOULD do what's necessary based a bit more on Science and a little less on faith.
And I can get it up just fine, fkr!!! or did you not notice the perpetual smile on Kitty's face on Sat
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The opinions expressed by this poster should always be considered offensive to Guadalupipi.
Dogo, Genio de Genios, why don't you look for a visectomator and ask if it's absolutely necessary to have your doc's refferal when he obviously does't want to give you one?
or just bloody hell tell him it's about you, not him and his outdated morals and get that stupid piece of paper. OR just bloody hell change docs!
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The opinions expressed by this poster can be offensive and are mainly directed at Dogo. Delta gamma b i t c h-orama. Copyright 2008 All rights reserved.
My DAD? que dad? It wasn't my dad's story... it was the DR who was willing to put his own wife at risk by having another kid. What would stop him from doing it to someone else that was also at risk, simply based on what he believes in his faith and not what he's learned as a Dr? (and is WHY I said I gave those examples. READ!) And was your mom at risk.. or simply because of her age? And what do you mean I shouldn't have gone to my dr?... who else do I go to? is there such thing as a "visectomator"?!! "cause I might be wrong, but I don't think you go to a cosmetic surgeon for this
Sorry....I meant to say the Dr. not your dad.
Like I keep saying...he's not putting your life at risk by not giving you advice...so he's not doing anything 'wrong'. That YOU don't like the way he handled it...you're entitled to feel that way. I'm sure that if someone's life was on the line...he'd do what's necessary, as required by his job and not his believes, to save the person.
Anyway......you're like pissed about this?? or just frustrated 'cause you thought he could help you get it up as well???
wtf are you still here? didn't i tell you to leave?
muahahahahahahaha!
Dont be mad just cuz I told everyone about your ginormous behind. Im sure that some people find it cute... you know, like those bushmen that live by the motto... the bigger the better.
@ Chale.. um loser.. he's not asking us for our opinion on whether he should do it or not.. he's clearly made up his mind. I think the only thing he's struggling with right now is C cup or D cups. Since you have no idea what either one is, I suggest you exit this thread pronto.
Oh mang, thats what I get for scanning and not reading
As for his decision on what cup to get, he should ask you... you've definately got a double D action going on on your backside....
Well...I WAS on the fence, but now I'm leaning more towards one side
This is probably an extreme situation, but assuming it's ok to bring your religious/moral believes to work, i suppose it could happen What if my Dr was a Jehova witness? And didn't think a blood transplant was morally acceptable, if Iiiii needed one?
Or what if a cop thought that shooting and killing a suspect that is attacking ME is morally unacceptable?
What if an abortion was necessary to save the mother-to be's life, but the Dr didn't want to perform it?
Or a judge swaying his sentencing, one way or the other, because of his faith? Should your faith supersede what your profession is there to do, or the services it's there to provide? I mean you either apply it or don't, you're either morally correct or you're not. You can't have it both ways, no? In fact my Dr told me a little story that I found a bit shocking (and is why I gave you those extreme examples) He is a father of four, all children born by C-section
After the last kid Drs suggested his wife should get her tubes "tied" because her uterus walls were weak.. bla bla bla, and it would be dangerous for her to bear a child again. So they tied them
He said that if that were to happen NOW, that his faith has grown to where it has, he wouldn't have let that happen. So I suppose that means that it was ok to risk his wife well being and his faith would take care of the rest...
I think that, not in all, but in certain professions, you can't let your morals or religious beliefs dictate and pick-and-choose which services you do or don't provide, and should provide the services -as long as it's not illegal- that your profession is there to provide. I think being a Dr is one of those professions. I mean modern medicine doesn'texactly rely on "Gods will". Quite the opposite. And if you can't overcome it... you should probably chose a different profession, I think
-- Edited by Dogo at 23:35, 2007-05-08
WoW!!! I think you're going too retarded bro! lol
All the examples you gave..are about saving someone's life...and in fact...if you wanna get technical...by him choosing not to advise you...he's trying to save live's...in some sort of round about way. Are you gonna die if you don't get this done?!?!? Is your life at risk?!?!? Anyway...
You can't make those comparisons. If you needed advise on how to make your pipi bigger..and make it should blanks...you should have gone straight to a cosmetic doctor. It's like you went to a mechanic to ask him how to get your car reupholstered.
I have a little faith story similar to your dad's. When my mom had my brother, older sister and I...the doctor told her to have her tubes tied also. My mom was in her early 30's....Anyway...my mom told the doctor that she wouldn't do it...and low and behold....my little sister was born.
WTF!!! Like Mark told you already....you can't get Jaime pregnant anyway....so move on!!!!
My DAD? que dad? It wasn't my dad's story... it was the DR who was willing to put his own wife at risk by having another kid. What would stop him from doing it to someone else that was also at risk, simply based on what he believes in his faith and not what he's learned as a Dr? (and is WHY I said I gave those examples. READ!) And was your mom at risk.. or simply because of her age? And what do you mean I shouldn't have gone to my dr?... who else do I go to? is there such thing as a "visectomator"?!! "cause I might be wrong, but I don't think you go to a cosmetic surgeon for this
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The opinions expressed by this poster should always be considered offensive to Guadalupipi.
@ Chale.. um loser.. he's not asking us for our opinion on whether he should do it or not.. he's clearly made up his mind. I think the only thing he's struggling with right now is C cup or D cups. Since you have no idea what either one is, I suggest you exit this thread pronto.
Its about time guys started to take the initiative at controlling the pet, errr... I mean the population.
If its something that you really wanna do, go for it. Im sure your girl will thank you once she knows that she doesnt have to bother with the hassel of daily/monthy birth control.
God wrote:Cauterized Actually.....mas seguro than tied off.
what's that? what's the difference? more convenient? less painful? more "secure"?
First they cut lil segment of the seminal tube and with some sort of soldering iron they "close" them from each side. that way there is less risk of failure, plus the reversal is almost impossible.
sounds painful
Not at all it takes 15 mins. Afterwards came back to the Office and 2 days later I was playing soccer.
Well...I WAS on the fence, but now I'm leaning more towards one side
This is probably an extreme situation, but assuming it's ok to bring your religious/moral believes to work, i suppose it could happen What if my Dr was a Jehova witness? And didn't think a blood transplant was morally acceptable, if Iiiii needed one?
Or what if a cop thought that shooting and killing a suspect that is attacking ME is morally unacceptable?
What if an abortion was necessary to save the mother-to be's life, but the Dr didn't want to perform it?
Or a judge swaying his sentencing, one way or the other, because of his faith? Should your faith supersede what your profession is there to do, or the services it's there to provide? I mean you either apply it or don't, you're either morally correct or you're not. You can't have it both ways, no? In fact my Dr told me a little story that I found a bit shocking (and is why I gave you those extreme examples) He is a father of four, all children born by C-section
After the last kid Drs suggested his wife should get her tubes "tied" because her uterus walls were weak.. bla bla bla, and it would be dangerous for her to bear a child again. So they tied them
He said that if that were to happen NOW, that his faith has grown to where it has, he wouldn't have let that happen. So I suppose that means that it was ok to risk his wife well being and his faith would take care of the rest...
I think that, not in all, but in certain professions, you can't let your morals or religious beliefs dictate and pick-and-choose which services you do or don't provide, and should provide the services -as long as it's not illegal- that your profession is there to provide. I think being a Dr is one of those professions. I mean modern medicine doesn'texactly rely on "Gods will". Quite the opposite. And if you can't overcome it... you should probably chose a different profession, I think
-- Edited by Dogo at 23:35, 2007-05-08
WoW!!! I think you're going too retarded bro! lol
All the examples you gave..are about saving someone's life...and in fact...if you wanna get technical...by him choosing not to advise you...he's trying to save live's...in some sort of round about way. Are you gonna die if you don't get this done?!?!? Is your life at risk?!?!? Anyway...
You can't make those comparisons. If you needed advise on how to make your pipi bigger..and make it should blanks...you should have gone straight to a cosmetic doctor. It's like you went to a mechanic to ask him how to get your car reupholstered.
I have a little faith story similar to your dad's. When my mom had my brother, older sister and I...the doctor told her to have her tubes tied also. My mom was in her early 30's....Anyway...my mom told the doctor that she wouldn't do it...and low and behold....my little sister was born.
WTF!!! Like Mark told you already....you can't get Jaime pregnant anyway....so move on!!!!
God wrote:Cauterized Actually.....mas seguro than tied off.
what's that? what's the difference? more convenient? less painful? more "secure"?
First they cut lil segment of the seminal tube and with some sort of soldering iron they "close" them from each side. that way there is less risk of failure, plus the reversal is almost impossible.
God wrote:Cauterized Actually.....mas seguro than tied off.
what's that? what's the difference? more convenient? less painful? more "secure"?
First they cut lil segment of the seminal tube and with some sort of soldering iron they "close" them from each side. that way there is less risk of failure, plus the reversal is almost impossible.
Well...I WAS on the fence, but now I'm leaning more towards one side
This is probably an extreme situation, but assuming it's ok to bring your religious/moral believes to work, i suppose it could happen What if my Dr was a Jehova witness? And didn't think a blood transplant was morally acceptable, if Iiiii needed one?
Or what if a cop thought that shooting and killing a suspect that is attacking ME is morally unacceptable?
What if an abortion was necessary to save the mother-to be's life, but the Dr didn't want to perform it?
Or a judge swaying his sentencing, one way or the other, because of his faith? Should your faith supersede what your profession is there to do, or the services it's there to provide? I mean you either apply it or don't, you're either morally correct or you're not. You can't have it both ways, no? In fact my Dr told me a little story that I found a bit shocking (and is why I gave you those extreme examples) He is a father of four, all children born by C-section
After the last kid Drs suggested his wife should get her tubes "tied" because her uterus walls were weak.. bla bla bla, and it would be dangerous for her to bear a child again. So they tied them
He said that if that were to happen NOW, that his faith has grown to where it has, he wouldn't have let that happen. So I suppose that means that it was ok to risk his wife well being and his faith would take care of the rest...
I think that, not in all, but in certain professions, you can't let your morals or religious beliefs dictate and pick-and-choose which services you do or don't provide, and should provide the services -as long as it's not illegal- that your profession is there to provide. I think being a Dr is one of those professions. I mean modern medicine doesn'texactly rely on "Gods will". Quite the opposite. And if you can't overcome it... you should probably chose a different profession, I think
-- Edited by Dogo at 23:35, 2007-05-08
This long ass rant reminded me... I watched An Incovenient Truth last night.
I think your Dr. is entitled to refuse a surgery like this if he wants, even though you're paying for it.
Just like a tattoo artist once said to me... sorry I don't do barcodes, because I don't like them... and the guy had his face all tattooed... I know this example has nothing to with this, but that's the only thing I can relate too....
BTW... not that I care about ur weewee or anything... but you might wanna try other contraceptive methods first, like this one for example...
Thanks, but that's not available yet And I think I'd something permanent, as my mind is made up on this issue
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Well...I WAS on the fence, but now I'm leaning more towards one side
This is probably an extreme situation, but assuming it's ok to bring your religious/moral believes to work, i suppose it could happen What if my Dr was a Jehova witness? And didn't think a blood transplant was morally acceptable, if Iiiii needed one?
Or what if a cop thought that shooting and killing a suspect that is attacking ME is morally unacceptable?
What if an abortion was necessary to save the mother-to be's life, but the Dr didn't want to perform it?
Or a judge swaying his sentencing, one way or the other, because of his faith? Should your faith supersede what your profession is there to do, or the services it's there to provide? I mean you either apply it or don't, you're either morally correct or you're not. You can't have it both ways, no? In fact my Dr told me a little story that I found a bit shocking (and is why I gave you those extreme examples) He is a father of four, all children born by C-section
After the last kid Drs suggested his wife should get her tubes "tied" because her uterus walls were weak.. bla bla bla, and it would be dangerous for her to bear a child again. So they tied them
He said that if that were to happen NOW, that his faith has grown to where it has, he wouldn't have let that happen. So I suppose that means that it was ok to risk his wife well being and his faith would take care of the rest...
I think that, not in all, but in certain professions, you can't let your morals or religious beliefs dictate and pick-and-choose which services you do or don't provide, and should provide the services -as long as it's not illegal- that your profession is there to provide. I think being a Dr is one of those professions. I mean modern medicine doesn'texactly rely on "Gods will". Quite the opposite. And if you can't overcome it... you should probably chose a different profession, I think
-- Edited by Dogo at 23:35, 2007-05-08
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The opinions expressed by this poster should always be considered offensive to Guadalupipi.
I think your Dr. is entitled to refuse a surgery like this if he wants, even though you're paying for it.
Just like a tattoo artist once said to me... sorry I don't do barcodes, because I don't like them... and the guy had his face all tattooed... I know this example has nothing to with this, but that's the only thing I can relate too....
BTW... not that I care about ur weewee or anything... but you might wanna try other contraceptive methods first, like this one for example...
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That sucks man. People like that make me sick. What is he, a friggin Pilgrim??
He is not a good Doctor, you should definitely switch to another one who practices in the 21st Century.
It's like going to a restaurant, and the waiter refuses to give me the steak i ordered, because of animal Cruelty....it's ridiculous. You should have dick-slapped him.
What's your problem you punk??? huh??? yeah you ....
I'm just saying that because his doctor should not let his religious beliefs determine what a patient would like to do. He should recommend other methods, not shut him down just like he did.
You think he doesn't know that already???
@Luna: I don't wanna talk about Dogo's pee-pee (or lack thereof)
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What's your problem you punk??? huh??? yeah you ....
I'm just saying that because his doctor should not let his religious beliefs determine what a patient would like to do. He should recommend other methods, not shut him down just like he did.
"The Canadian Medical Association Code of Ethics reads 'When a physician's religious or moral conscience alone prevents him from recommending some form of therapy, he will so acquaint the patient.'"
""Religious beliefs are highly emotional - as is any belief that is effecting your behaviour in society. You have no right letting your private beliefs effect your public behaviour.""
"The Catholic Civil Rights League (CCRL) is also interested in the case. CCRL Vice President Phil Horgan told LifeSite: "It is important to cite the principle from Canada's first case on religious freedom (by Supreme Court Chief Justice Dickson [1985] 1 S.C.R. 295, at 336-7) in R v. Big M Drug Mart Ltd.: "Freedom means that, subject to such limitations as are necessary to protect public safety, order, health, or morals or the fundamental rights and freedoms of others, no one is to be forced to act in a way contrary to his beliefs or his conscience.""
In short, he CAN refuse but its still up for debate I guess I think he's in the wrong for his delivery of the message but he's duty is to himself above everything else.
This article isn't legit as they used to word EFFECT as opposed to AFFECT!!!!!
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The opinions expressed by this poster can be offensive and are mainly directed at Dogo. Delta gamma b i t c h-orama. Copyright 2008 All rights reserved.
"The Canadian Medical Association Code of Ethics reads 'When a physician's religious or moral conscience alone prevents him from recommending some form of therapy, he will so acquaint the patient.'"
""Religious beliefs are highly emotional - as is any belief that is effecting your behaviour in society. You have no right letting your private beliefs effect your public behaviour.""
"The Catholic Civil Rights League (CCRL) is also interested in the case. CCRL Vice President Phil Horgan told LifeSite: "It is important to cite the principle from Canada's first case on religious freedom (by Supreme Court Chief Justice Dickson [1985] 1 S.C.R. 295, at 336-7) in R v. Big M Drug Mart Ltd.: "Freedom means that, subject to such limitations as are necessary to protect public safety, order, health, or morals or the fundamental rights and freedoms of others, no one is to be forced to act in a way contrary to his beliefs or his conscience.""
In short, he CAN refuse but its still up for debate I guess I think he's in the wrong for his delivery of the message but he's duty is to himself above everything else.
You guys are all JERKS! here is dogo asking for some advice and you all make this in to a joke!!!
Dogo, for a boob job you need to see a plastic surgeon. No un vasectonamista.
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I'm not going to get into the moral or ethical aspects of this.....I think you know were I stand on this.
However.....I will say that the doctor did the right thing. What you wanna do to your pipi is by choice...so considered an elective surgery. Your doctor doesn't "have to" help you...because your health is not at risk if he doesn't do it.
I respect that he gave you his honest answer. He could have just said..."no..I don't know anyone"..lol.....or ever worse....he could have sent you to a crappy doctor....lol....who knows.....
I thought you said you were sterile anyway...and that not even Mark could get you "up"....so why bother?!?!?
...
I have to admit I'm on the fence on this one.
I realize my health is not at risk, and I suppose he can refuse to 'help' me if he chose to, under THESE circumstances... maybe
At the same time who else does on go to for medical needs/wants? I don't think that everything we go see our doctor for is necessarily because our health is at "risk" I think he owes his patients to at least guide them in the direction they want to go, without necessarily becoming an 'accomplice' to it. I mean... I didn't ask him to do anything illegal or that it's uncommon practice (and it's a vasectomy!! not an abortion!)... and I didn't ask him to perform it. I knew it wasn't him who would And as Mark said, I guess I would expect him to give his opinion, maybe even try to convince me (although I don't think that would be his place either) but to refuse to guide me through it....cought me a bit by surprise.
I think I know where you stand on these issues, but I don't think these is even comparable to say... abortion (as he compared it to) If that were the case, I guess a man masturbating would also be 'immoral' and a waste of a 'life'? And is a vasectomy much different than for example using a condom or 'the pill' or any other method?
-- Edited by Dogo at 22:40, 2007-05-07
I'm with Baina on this one. Not because he's a doctor he can leave his religious beliefs at home and go to his clinic and just perform as a doctor. I'm guessing he's an older gentleman, and those are a little more inflexible and more set in their ways. He has a right to refuse, I guess. And in fact, I like the fact that he's so passionate about this. Other doctors would just see you, refer you to another doctor and charge OHIP for seeing you and that would be that. You don't see passion and principles in professionals of any kind anymore or it's very rare. Now YOU have the choice of going to get a second opinion, if you so desire. But at least you're getting different views on why this is or it's not a good idea to go through the procedure.
So I finally went to see my doctor about getting a vasectomy He gave me this looooong sermon.... not to convince me or patronize me, but to say that he won't be an accomplice to it, and won't refer me to whoever it is he has to refer me to, because of his religious and moral believes And that a vasectomy,to him, is along the same lines as abortion I was like "ohhhhhkaaayyyyy"
Should your faith really mix with what you're there to do profesionally, or should he be there to assist me in my needs/wants? I suppose your moral believes are what they are... but I'm not sure you should take them to work (I suppose it also depends what your profession is, but...) that's like a lawyer saying "I won't defend you because I think you really ARE guilty" it's his job!!! no? I dunno
Anyway... so now I have to go to another Dr to refer me to the 'vasectomator'
BTW, do you think there's anything morally wrong with a vasectomy? By his standards.. does it also mean it's morally wrong to have sex that is not for procreation?
discuss
I think that doctor is putting his personal/religious beliefs before the professional one, which is very unprofessional.
When I got it done the only thing the doctor told me was that he thought I was younger for that.
At this point I think you've made your decision so find another doctor.