Colombiana4Life wrote:

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I gotta agree with PL on this one.  This guy has done a lot of good for the community.  I really agree with the fact that some have a personal vendetta against this guy and will try everything to bring him down.  And I would not be surprised if his comments were totally taken out of context and "edited" a bit.

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-- Edited by DN_416 at 10:51, 2007-03-15

Oscar Vigil get a life!!! You are sooo obsess  with father Astudillo. You should try to do something different with your time. I wonder if you are gay and inlove with him. Samething goes for "El Popular" they just want to trash father Astudillo for no reason. They are not imparcial nor objective. 

I gotta agree with PL on this one.  This guy has done a lot of good for the community.  I really agree with the fact that some have a personal vendetta against this guy and will try everything to bring him down.  And I would not be surprised if his comments were totally taken out of context and "edited" a bit.

Yo creo que su comentario demuestra la ignorancia que tiene no solo acerca de los salvadoreños pero de cualquier otra persona involucrada en este tipo de movimientos. Lo hecho, hecho esta, ahora no puede dar mancha a tras y revertir lo que a dicho; pero si como dice el articulo, el esta tratando de ayudar a jovenes involucrados en este tipo de pandillas, las acciones hablaran mas que las palabras.

TV Buff wrote:

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Dogo wrote:

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@Buffy
Disculpa, talves mi post haya estado incompleto, y en el contexto de este, tal cual lo escribi, es verdad , no tiene nada que ver. Deberia haber elaborado (o al menos un "punto y aparte")

Para hacerlo mas claro........ admito tener cierta tendencia en tomar ventaja de ciertas opportunidades en hacer resaltar la hipocrecia (IMO) de la iglesia o de sus representantes, aunque la coneccion(?) sea aparentemente remota

No es ningun secreto que no soy fanatico de la iglesia, y tengo muy poca tolerancia para ella y sus "ooops". Tampoco puedo resistir mi genio, y hacer lo que siento publico

Acepta mis disculpas si te offendi

-- Edited by Dogo at 18:16, 2007-03-13

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Hombre, pero que estirado y que proper me saliste, Dogo... Pfffftttt!

Seriously, though, no offense taken. I'm the first one to be very apprehensive and distrustful of the church. After all, they're human too, and their mouths go off like everyone else's. It's just that whatever they say falls on very attentive ears, as opposed to everyone else, and that's why they should be very, very careful with what they say. But we also have to give them the benefit of the doubt. There are hypocrites and there are genuine religious people. We just have to learn to differenciate between them. Personally, I don't go to church to hear and follow blindly what they say. I go to hear it and then form my own opinions about it. And I go to keep my faith alive. In this case, though, because of the influence Padre Astudillo has in the community, what he said may prove to be very damaging to his image and credibility, even with his own followers. And I've always thought that church and business should never, ever, ever ever mix. He should leave the "consciousness raising" and "media awareness" to other people and concentrate on feeding and healing the spirit. My

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I would laugh if I knew what “estirado” meant  
Anyway, I have 2 answers for you: 

a)…. And you’re a chicken!!!  

b) Granted. I, however, have a very hard time being accepting of an institution that is unaccepting  (oxymoron, I know. Whatever) (First example that comes to mind is homosexuals) Or that preach “do as I say not as I do”
IMO You cannot, SHOULD NOT, so vehemently preach what you preach, and seemingly be above “mere human morals” and allow a single rotten apple if you full heartedly believe in your institution, what it stands for, and what it so emphatically, preaches
Hearing disturbing cases in the church, or as simple as this one that we are talking about, makes me loose all respect for these guys in particular and for this institution in general
Call me intolerant (and although, by now, I’m a bit desensitized)   but reading cases like this, just makes my skin crawl. It’s just, simply, disturbing to me to think that people flock to church to, in what feels to me, be suckered (sorry once more)
Which brings me to your last “church and business shouldn’t mix” comment; I think it’s too late for a comment like that, about an “institution” that might have the power to solve some of humanities troubles, yet it chooses not to, and that is, likely, the richest “institution” on the planet. meh 

I think this is all I want to say about this

I totally agree, I dont know much about him and like any other human he's bound to make mistakes. He's a controvesial man and you would think that if he was trying to do the right things he would learn form his past actions.

Many good actions will be remembered over the few wrong ones, if he apologizes and offers a reasonable enough explanation to what he said I think he'll be alright.

Then again, once politics come into play it's a totally different deal!

DJ MIX wrote:

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“la violencia está en los genes. Muchas madres amamantaron a sus hijos durante la guerra civil salvadoreña, ellas tienen familiares que fueron asesinados durante la guerra civil”.

This guy is just DUMB, the worse is that he's a religious figure. Some people should learn to mind their own bussines and if they do have an opinion about something they should at least make sure they have a good argument to back their comments with.

So if one of your relatives gets killed the next baby you breast feed will turn out to be violent. is that how it works? It's all about the MILk you digest!!(what a joke!)

As a priest he should be an educator... does he know that education even exitst? does he know tha the way your family raises you has a lot to do with what you turnout to be as well?

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Yes it was very dumb way to say something that, if put in the right terms, well, doesn't seem to be too much off the line, whether in El Salvador or any other war ravaged and neoliberalism empoverished country in Latin America.

What I mean by "put in the right terms" is the following:

Violencia doméstica, origen de pandillas en El Salvador
Ocho de cada 10 jóvenes mareros fueron víctimas o testigos
de la agresión intrafamiliar, aseguran expertos del PNUD y de la UCA

(I'd hope that you consider both the PNUD and UCA as credible sources, right?)

If Astudillo had been in the pulpit, well, maybe "mother's milk" and "genes" might have been -at least, slightly more acceptable, however unfair to women and particularly hard working mothers in El Salvador and everywhere- ilustrations for "(violent) family environment" and "(violent) upbringing". And that would be supported by the study quoted above.

But he wasn't at the pulpit. He was talking to a larger audience, and this far down the road, Astudillo should have known better.

I wish he would explain his words, apologize to anyone he offended by his comments and go on with what he's been doing in the past for the sake of latinoamerican refugees and poor people in Toronto.




-- Edited by go_fish at 10:54, 2007-03-14

go_fish wrote:

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God wrote:

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I don't know this Homie astudillo but for what I saw here and there he sounds like a piece of work...Thanks to people like him I Became Scientologist....

Algunos ensotadados se pasan de lanzas...se deberian a limitar a hacer sus funcines de "Padrecitos"

F@ck Religion!

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Man, you have no idea how much crap you've managed to put together in a single sentence.

You "don't know" him but he "sounds like a piece of work", which makes him "one of those people because of whom you became a Scientologist?



Must suck to be you.


Meh.

 

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If you say so...AMEN !

God wrote:

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I don't know this Homie astudillo but for what I saw here and there he sounds like a piece of work...Thanks to people like him I Became Scientologist....

Algunos ensotadados se pasan de lanzas...se deberian a limitar a hacer sus funcines de "Padrecitos"

F@ck Religion!

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 Man, you have no idea how much crap you've managed to put together in a single sentence.

You "don't know" him but he "sounds like a piece of work", which makes him "one of those people because of whom you became a Scientologist?



Must suck to be you.


Meh.

 

Dogo wrote:

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@Buffy
Disculpa, talves mi post haya estado incompleto, y en el contexto de este, tal cual lo escribi, es verdad , no tiene nada que ver. Deberia haber elaborado (o al menos un "punto y aparte")

Para hacerlo mas claro........ admito tener cierta tendencia en tomar ventaja de ciertas opportunidades en hacer resaltar la hipocrecia (IMO) de la iglesia o de sus representantes, aunque la coneccion(?) sea aparentemente remota

No es ningun secreto que no soy fanatico de la iglesia, y tengo muy poca tolerancia para ella y sus "ooops". Tampoco puedo resistir mi genio, y hacer lo que siento publico

Acepta mis disculpas si te offendi

-- Edited by Dogo at 18:16, 2007-03-13

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Hombre, pero que estirado y que proper me saliste, Dogo... Pfffftttt!

Seriously, though, no offense taken. I'm the first one to be very apprehensive and distrustful of the church. After all, they're human too, and their mouths go off like everyone else's. It's just that whatever they say falls on very attentive ears, as opposed to everyone else, and that's why they should be very, very careful with what they say. But we also have to give them the benefit of the doubt. There are hypocrites and there are genuine religious people. We just have to learn to differenciate between them. Personally, I don't go to church to hear and follow blindly what they say. I go to hear it and then form my own opinions about it. And I go to keep my faith alive. In this case, though, because of the influence Padre Astudillo has in the community, what he said may prove to be very damaging to his image and credibility, even with his own followers. And I've always thought that church and business should never, ever, ever ever mix. He should leave the "consciousness raising" and "media awareness" to other people and concentrate on feeding and healing the spirit. My


@ Mega: You're right. El Popular is very unilateral in their opinion of Astudillo. Oscar Vigil seems to have a personal vendetta against him, and this is not new. It's been going on for a looooong time now, so their opinions are not the most credible. I'm sure other community leaders have said worst things about other communities, and it doesn't get the attention that Astudillo gets, mostly because of the obsession of Vigil with him.

@mega

your right

@DN_416

He's from cuenca.. serrano's can't keep there mounth shut

TV Buff wrote:

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Dogo wrote:

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Actually I had read this Friday, I think, here on TH. I was going to post it, but was affraid that someone might freak on my head
Nonetheless, pretty screwed up.... Siiiiiigan llendo a la iglesia nomas! pfft!


-- Edited by Dogo at 12:03, 2007-03-13

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Que tiene que ver una cosa con la otra?

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 My thoughts exactly!! I think you should summerize it even more for our dear friend Dogo!!

my xmall kontribution to the debaté.





http://sanesteban.blogspot.com/

-- Edited by go_fish at 12:12, 2007-03-13

DN_416 wrote:

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Where is he from? out of curiosity

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He's ecuadorian, which I don't think has anything to do with anything.

And this is what he had to say in his defense. So far he hasn't talked to El Popular, from what I read in the article, but I doubt he would, since they're always on the lookout for any metida de pata he does.

“Hay un pequeño rumor que anda por las calles, y el pequeño rumor que anda por las calles es que yo he ofendido a la comunidad salvadoreña. Y les voy a decir con mucha humildad, con el corazón en mis manos, que la comunidad salvadoreña me enseñó mucho, por eso es que soy hijo espiritual de monseñor Romero, que amo profundamente a la gente de El salvador y América Latina, y que si hay algún rumor no tengan pena, que yo se que ustedes no me van a dejar ni yo los voy a dejar, yo estoy enamorado profundamente del pueblo salvadoreño y del pueblo latinoamericano”, dijo el sacerdote anglicano Hernán Astudillo a un puñado de feligreses ayer domingo, en las primeras declaraciones públicas que realiza luego de haber desatado la polémica con afirmaciones supuestamente racistas contra los salvadoreños en CBC Radio.
No obstante, durante la misa del domingo, el religioso anglicano pidió a su grupo de seguidores que no le hagan caso a ningún rumor que escuchen por la calle.
“Yo les voy a decir de corazón que cometí un error este año, y el error fue de no haberme ido con la Caravana de la Esperanza, y fue porque había mucho cansancio en mí físicamente, tuve que ir al médico, y también habían algunas personas que quisieron bloquear la Caravana de la Esperanza, pero le pedí permiso a ‘Taita Dios’, le pedí permiso a Monseñor Romero, y le pedí permiso a la gente que me ayuda aquí, especialmente a las mamitas que están en la cocina, que ustedes saben los milagros que hacen. Y pidiéndoles permiso a todos ustedes, y escuchándoles a ustedes, creo que todos los rumores y los chismes que puede haber no nos van a convencer”, aseguró.
Al cierre de esta edición no se había obtenido respuesta a las solicitudes de entrevista que este diario ha hecho a Astudillo, misma que se continuará gestionando para beneficio de nuestros lectores.

-- Edited by TV Buff at 11:54, 2007-03-13

Ignorance does no one any good.


But does it bother me personally? No.
If that's the belief he has then he can stay away from me.

I'm one angry salvi girl, he best not be messing with this beast! Arrrrr

you see? i'm disastrous.

TV Buff wrote:

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GENIE wrote:

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oh god i hate reading in spanish can u please translate!! or at least abrivate what there saying i dont want to put myself to sleep thank u

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I'll do my best, just paraphrasing, though.

Astudillo was interviewed by the CBC and asked something about the MS-13 and violence or something, to which he answered that the violence in salvadorans was genetic because the gangsters' parents had lived through the war, the mothers had emigrated, breasfed their kids and so they passed on the violent genes to their children and grew up genetically violent. They originate from war, he said, and if the seed of violence is planted in them, what they sow is storms, or something along those lines.

So now the salvadoran and latinamerican communities are up in arms in regards to these comments.

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          omg what an idiot!!! I was born when the war was going and I am not Violent and for the record the MS 13 was started by some fuked up General who got thrown out of the army!! is this man retarded or what!! Who is he and where can i kick his butt (oh but im not violent ok it was the war and my mom breastfeed me so now im a gangster que pendejo!!!) im pissed now

 

Oh dear lord! This is what i think of that man

oh god i hate reading in spanish can u please translate!! or at least abrivate what there saying i dont want to put myself to sleep thank u